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Sony 16-105 or CZ 16-80 - can't decide!

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QuietOC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2021 at 14:21
The piezo ring SSM motor in the 16-50 is not the most reliable either. You can find plenty of those broken too. The micro motor in the 18-135 SAM may be the most reliable option. At least I haven't seen a broken one of those. Ok, Google search showed me one I've seen one with a bent mount plate. That seems to be a soft alloy on that lens--which may be worse than the plastic mounts on the cheaper DT lenses.
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Aavo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Aavo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2021 at 17:48
Yes, I had never no problems with plastic mounts on the cheaper DT lenses.
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addy landzaat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2021 at 18:34
Originally posted by QuietOC QuietOC wrote:

The piezo ring SSM motor in the 16-50 is not the most reliable either. You can find plenty of those broken too. The micro motor in the 18-135 SAM may be the most reliable option. At least I haven't seen a broken one of those. Ok, Google search showed me one I've seen one with a bent mount plate. That seems to be a soft alloy on that lens--which may be worse than the plastic mounts on the cheaper DT lenses.
Plastics do not bent as much as metal....

You have plastic and you have plastic. For some uses plastics are much, much better then steel. In fact, I feel that plastics (or composite materials) would be much better for camera mounts. However, a lot of people irrational feel metal is better, therefore camera lenses have metal mounts.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2021 at 18:40
Yeah, I liked the composite mounts on the A58 and A68. Zero issues with those.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LAbernethy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2021 at 18:41
All my plastic safety glasses from 1977-2020 are powder, brittle, scratched or just broken. All metal and glass are still going.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LAbernethy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2021 at 18:48
It was the plastic and rubber components that failed in my film cameras
 



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Miranda F View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2021 at 20:18
If you wrench the lens off a camera body, eg by dropping it, which part do you want to break?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2021 at 20:28
I suppose it depends on what is worth more. I know there were a few threads of A77 models with ripped off mounts that required replacing the inner frame. I don't know if the composite mounts would have have saved them, but I know the composite mount can absorb quite a bit of load by flexing. I used some big, heavy lenses on those plastic mounts. They would visibly deform and spring back just fine.

I've seen broken plastic mounts on lenses--mainly EF-S lenses. I've never seen a plastic mount A-mount lens broken, but I am sure it has happened.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2021 at 21:36
Originally posted by LAbernethy LAbernethy wrote:

It was the plastic and rubber components that failed in my film cameras

Originally posted by LAbernethy LAbernethy wrote:

All my plastic safety glasses from 1977-2020 are powder, brittle, scratched or just broken. All metal and glass are still going.

If you kept them outside in wind and rain, all the metal rusted away

Without kidding. There are many different kinds of plastics. There are high grade plastics that will be fine. All those plastics in your film cameras were put there to safe money - remember, good plastics are not necessary cheaper then metals. You're thinking about the cheap plastics in your consumer goods when you hear "plastic". I am also thinking of plastics in industrial environments. Think about Nylon or Kevlar. In Dutch we tend to call cheap plastics "plastic" and higher grade plastics "kunststof" (artificial material).

And you should not equate rubber with plastics. True, some plastics can be used as replacements for rubber, but most are not.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2021 at 21:44
Oh, I am not saying that metal is bad. My favourite metal is brass But different materials are suited for different use cases and I am convinced that metal is not the best material for lens mounts.

re. breaking: some plastics will be more prone to breaking then others. I feel Sony used a slightly softer plastic then Canon that was probably a little more able to move with the movement. On the other hand, I found that Canon lenscaps are less prone to breaking then the old Minolta ones. Finding the right plastic is not easy I guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LAbernethy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2021 at 22:05
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:



Without kidding. There are many different kinds of plastics. There are high grade plastics that will be fine. All those plastics in your film cameras were put there to safe money - remember, good plastics are not necessary cheaper then metals. You're thinking about the cheap plastics in your consumer goods when you hear "plastic". I am also thinking of plastics in industrial environments. Think about Nylon or Kevlar. In Dutch we tend to call cheap plastics "plastic" and higher grade plastics "kunststof" (artificial material).

And you should not equate rubber with plastics. True, some plastics can be used as replacements for rubber, but most are not.


Last time I checked Sony was a consumer electronics conglomerate and the switch to plastic was to reduce cost. lets have this discussion in 30years, The revered Minolta glass from 1985 has held up well, maybe the fantastic plastic will be more than landfill.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote neilt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2021 at 22:49
Originally posted by LAbernethy LAbernethy wrote:

Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:



Without kidding. There are many different kinds of plastics. There are high grade plastics that will be fine. All those plastics in your film cameras were put there to safe money - remember, good plastics are not necessary cheaper then metals. You're thinking about the cheap plastics in your consumer goods when you hear "plastic". I am also thinking of plastics in industrial environments. Think about Nylon or Kevlar. In Dutch we tend to call cheap plastics "plastic" and higher grade plastics "kunststof" (artificial material).

And you should not equate rubber with plastics. True, some plastics can be used as replacements for rubber, but most are not.


Last time I checked Sony was a consumer electronics conglomerate and the switch to plastic was to reduce cost. lets have this discussion in 30years, The revered Minolta glass from 1985 has held up well, maybe the fantastic plastic will be more than landfill.


I seem to remember some of the Minolta lenses in the 1990's having plastic flanges on the lenses , amongst other parts , plus on cameras.
Not so much the high end ones , but all the same , there thirty years old already .

Just saying ...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LAbernethy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2021 at 23:07
Originally posted by neilt3 neilt3 wrote:



I seem to remember some of the Minolta lenses in the 1990's having plastic flanges on the lenses , amongst other parts , plus on cameras.
Not so much the high end ones , but all the same , there thirty years old already .

Just saying ...

true. wait aren't those the crappy lenses that no one (but Miranda F and QuietOC ) likes. Well i will admit I had a silver 28-100mm konica minolta lens with a plastic flange; that truly was a piece of crap. I concede, let crap rule. Why isn't the mount in the A1 this fantastic material?

Edited by LAbernethy - 07 April 2021 at 23:22
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Post Options Post Options   Quote overeema Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2021 at 23:11
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Plastics do not bent as much as metal....

You have plastic and you have plastic. For some uses plastics are much, much better then steel. In fact, I feel that plastics (or composite materials) would be much better for camera mounts. However, a lot of people irrational feel metal is better, therefore camera lenses have metal mounts.

You also have metal and metal.
And you have laminated materials: layers of metal and plastic glued together. Each layer can contribute its specific mechanical and chemical properties. Most cars use laminated metals these days. Same holds for aircrafts. I am certain that there are laminated materials with much more advantageous properties than any metal or plastic alone could have.

You cannot see the difference with a material that constitutes the visible toplayer. Laminated materials are much more expensive than single layer plastics or metals, but the total cost of a lens mount weighs in very little on the production cost of the whole camera.
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