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Sony a7r iii and Lightroom 5.7

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pegelli View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pegelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2020 at 15:31
dCap, thanks for mentioning, I forgot to mention that in my post.
The DNG of the test photo was produced by the stand-alone DNG converter, and not by Lightroom on import.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pegelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2020 at 15:56
Originally posted by dCap dCap wrote:

I'm totally dumb to the idea that LR does lens distortion conversions - I've heard of it - is is something new? Certain version of LR. I thought that was the job of the RAW in camera writing process (perhaps that is different for different makes/models of camera?).

I was reading this thinking, as long as it gives me this lot:
ISO, Av, Tv, K (guessed from auto white balance), and "28mm"
what other data do you need?

Then I do remember people talking about uncorrected profiles vs correct in the occasional lens review I've looked at. So, must be a LR toggle?
Yes, it's a toggle and there are many lens profiles built in and you can even create your own for lenses that are not in there by default. It's basically a cumbersome process but people have done it and shared their profiles on line which you can import into lightroom. We have a dedicated thread for that on Dyxum. For manual lenses without EXIF you have to select the right lens from the list, I use several profiles for old Rokkors for instance.
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QuietOC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2020 at 16:29
Originally posted by dCap dCap wrote:

intesting stuff @QuietOC - thanks for the link

I'm lucky that I personally only want to keep very few images now, perhaps about 10,000. Not sure on the actual volume, but I'm being hard on my archive and about to limit it to say 500 frames per year (2005-2020 digital). I am thinking of keeping:
- RAW
- DNG (not sure which option, but NOT the one with RAW inside)
- TIFF (untouched 'sooc' export, surely everything can read a TIFF?!)
- TIFF (edited)
be strict with file naming/locations to keep my three raws (RAW/DNG/TIFF) safe.

Then jpgs for the internets could be made to measure from the edited TIFF. They would also be disposable since they can easily be recreated from the final TIFF. I say this as my 2008 flickr feed is made up of 600x400 pixel images and well, times have moved on as have the accepted screen photo size!!

Need to do some trial RAW > DNG conversions on old KM7D files and newest GX9 or RX100 files ... and have a play with free CaptureOne and the Affinity Photo trial (looks to be the one I'll like).


I am sure DNGs would be fine. I use and save the standard Sony compressed ARW files. There is one issue those can have with high (local) contrast images. Some people use the uncompressed ARW option in camera and then convert to DNG lossless compression and archive the DNGs. There is some sense to doing that.

For events where I take a lot of pictures I just save JPEGs in camera. I have over 100,000 JPEGs from motorsports/car events. I like not editing those pictures. It is a lot of work doing anything with them. Those are also the only pictures that I have sold.

I assume you mean TIFFs without JPEG compression. My previous job almost exclusively used TIFFs. When I started the company was using uncompressed TIFFs--there might have been issues with compressed TIFFs at some point in the past. I found we could use lossless compressed TIFFs without issues, which helped a lot with the amount of files involved.

I don't use TIFFs at all personally--except all EXIF files from cameras are basically specialized TIFFs. If I need something like a lossless TIFF, I use PNG which is a more useful alternative since browsers can display PNGs directly.

Modern editors handle JPEG compression well. So even re-editing those is not much of a problem. Website re-encoders like those used by Facebook though are often kinda horrible. You can feed those PNGs to save some quality.

Edited by QuietOC - 19 June 2020 at 16:52
Sony A7III NEX-5T HVL-F45RM LA-EA3 LA-EA4 MB-IV MC-11 EF-E II MD-NEX KR-NEX DA-NEX
Minolta Maxxum 600si
Pentax Q7 5-15 15-45/2.8 8.5/1.9 11.5/9 AF-P/Q
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Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2020 at 17:04
Originally posted by dCap dCap wrote:

I'm totally dumb to the idea that LR does lens distortion conversions - I've heard of it - is is something new? Certain version of LR. I thought that was the job of the RAW in camera writing process (perhaps that is different for different makes/models of camera?).

I was reading this thinking, as long as it gives me this lot:
ISO, Av, Tv, K (guessed from auto white balance), and "28mm"
what other data do you need?

Then I do remember people talking about uncorrected profiles vs correct in the occasional lens review I've looked at. So, must be a LR toggle?

I have never used Lightroom, but I see complaints online about waiting for Adobe to release a lens profile for some new lens. The Sony ARW 2.3 have had embedded lens corrections since 2011. My new Samyang 75mm F1.8 included this data, the Sony camera embeds it in the ARW, and Capture One applies the parameters. No waiting involved.

Now I would like profiles for older lenses that Sony and Capture One haven't supported. So that community aspect of Lightroom might be nice. I would really appreciate an in-camera profile for the Minolta/Sony 24-105mm for instance.

Sony embeds lots of metadata, like the readings of every AF sensor. Picture Information Extractor (PIE) already mentioned is a nice way to look at it. Exiftool is a command line utility that has done most of the work figuring out the private metadata.

Edited by QuietOC - 19 June 2020 at 18:34
Sony A7III NEX-5T HVL-F45RM LA-EA3 LA-EA4 MB-IV MC-11 EF-E II MD-NEX KR-NEX DA-NEX
Minolta Maxxum 600si
Pentax Q7 5-15 15-45/2.8 8.5/1.9 11.5/9 AF-P/Q
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Post Options Post Options   Quote wetapunga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2020 at 21:48
Originally posted by pegelli pegelli wrote:

What metadata is actually missing when converting to DNG? I just looked in PIE (Picture Information Extractor) and in the many hundreds of data this program reads from the EXIF and Metadata I couldn't find any differences, but I didn't look at every individual field. However all important stuff was there in both cases.

Also in LR all the camera profiles available for the ARW were also showing up for the DNG, so I don't understand what the problem is there. Also the unedited files (ARW and DNG) using the standard Adobe profile looked identical.


This was my experience too last night. I got a couple of sample raw files off the web, converted them with the DNG convertor and found all the camera, lens and exposure information was retained. I didn't see anything that was conspicuously or vitally absent.

I didn't see anything wrong with the images in LR either, after the conversion. Which I was worried about as the DNG file did shrink the Sony Arw file from about 82 MB to 44MB.
a77ii- and some Sony/Minolta A-mount lenses.
a7riii- Zeiss Loxia 21mm, Loxia 35mm Loxia 50mm, Loxia 85mm, Voightlander 110mm Macro, Sony 24-105mm, Sigma 100-400mm.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote wetapunga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2020 at 21:49
Originally posted by QuietOC QuietOC wrote:


I have never used Lightroom, but I see complaints online about waiting for Adobe to release a lens profile for some new lens. The Sony ARW 2.3 have had embedded lens corrections since 2011. My new Samyang 75mm F1.8 included this data, the Sony camera embeds it in the ARW, and Capture One applies the parameters. No waiting involved.
...


All my lenses are old lenses
a77ii- and some Sony/Minolta A-mount lenses.
a7riii- Zeiss Loxia 21mm, Loxia 35mm Loxia 50mm, Loxia 85mm, Voightlander 110mm Macro, Sony 24-105mm, Sigma 100-400mm.
 



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addy landzaat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2020 at 07:51
Originally posted by wetapunga wetapunga wrote:

Originally posted by QuietOC QuietOC wrote:


I have never used Lightroom, but I see complaints online about waiting for Adobe to release a lens profile for some new lens. The Sony ARW 2.3 have had embedded lens corrections since 2011. My new Samyang 75mm F1.8 included this data, the Sony camera embeds it in the ARW, and Capture One applies the parameters. No waiting involved.
...


All my lenses are old lenses
According to your signature you have a Sony 16-50/2.8 - on recent cameras there is in camera corrections for this lens, so, not all your lenses are "old"

I thought that LR also uses the build in corrections, negating the need for separate lens profiles needed for older lenses/cameras.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2020 at 08:35
I originally had something to say, but it turned out to be wrong. Carry on.

Edited by sybersitizen - 20 June 2020 at 08:46
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pegelli View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pegelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2020 at 09:09
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

I thought that LR also uses the build in corrections, negating the need for separate lens profiles needed for older lenses/cameras.
The question was wether if you convert to DNG Lightroom can still see the built in corrections. They certainly see/use them on lenses when you are using the ARW's and say so in the lens correction tab.

On my earlier test where there was no "pixel level" difference between the ARW and the DNG only the ARW version showed "Built-in lens profile applied" while the DNG didn't show this message. But it could be that Sony provided the lens correction data to Adobe and that the profile in Lightroom is identical to the built in profile of the lens. Or alternatively LR still uses the built in profile but just doesn't show the remark in the tab.

Also if you're using an older version of LR and use newer lenses where you need a profile you would have to manually "import" these profiles into lightroom (when they are available).

So if you have a lens with a built-in profile C1 and Lighroom will both use it, but if you convert to DNG LR might not see it (we don't know) but as long as it has the profile in the list you're still good. And LR has many more built in profiles as compared to C1.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2020 at 10:55
by the way ... you lot are entirely to blame for me browsing Voigtlander (Leica M-mount) lenses and a FujiFilm M mount adaptor!

Good job the fastest is 1.1
Extra good job that they are hard to find
Not so good that one of my go-to used shops has a used one!.!

(browsing, just browsing)
Sony RX100 IV Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 1,8-2,8/8,8-25,7 [ 24-70mm ]
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2020 at 13:05
Originally posted by pegelli pegelli wrote:

Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

I thought that LR also uses the build in corrections, negating the need for separate lens profiles needed for older lenses/cameras.
The question was wether if you convert to DNG Lightroom can still see the built in corrections. They certainly see/use them on lenses when you are using the ARW's and say so in the lens correction tab.
I was replying to QuietOC's remark about people complaining about the lack of Adobe lens profiles. These complaints do not take into account first converting to DNG.
So, different question then you are answering.

Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

I originally had something to say, but it turned out to be wrong. Carry on.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bob J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2020 at 14:50
I'd advise to have a look at the free version of Capture 1 for Sony - it does most of what the pro version does and you get perpetual updates for free - it will only work with ARW files though.

I switched from LR5 to the Pro version of C1 some time ago, but to be honest the 'express' version seems fine (and my 'pro' is now 2 versions out of date).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2020 at 21:16
Originally posted by Bob J Bob J wrote:

I'd advise to have a look at the free version of Capture 1 for Sony - it does most of what the pro version does and you get perpetual updates for free - it will only work with ARW files though.

I switched from LR5 to the Pro version of C1 some time ago, but to be honest the 'express' version seems fine (and my 'pro' is now 2 versions out of date).


Yep - I've heard lots of good about Capture One (free version and the half price full version you get bundled with some cameras). Good to see someone has started to compete.
Sony RX100 IV Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 1,8-2,8/8,8-25,7 [ 24-70mm ]
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Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2020 at 21:22
Originally posted by Bob J Bob J wrote:

I'd advise to have a look at the free version of Capture 1 for Sony - it does most of what the pro version does and you get perpetual updates for free - it will only work with ARW files though.

It should work with DNGs too. At least my version 12 Pro (for Sony) does. It only checks that the "Make" EXIF tag is "SONY".
Sony A7III NEX-5T HVL-F45RM LA-EA3 LA-EA4 MB-IV MC-11 EF-E II MD-NEX KR-NEX DA-NEX
Minolta Maxxum 600si
Pentax Q7 5-15 15-45/2.8 8.5/1.9 11.5/9 AF-P/Q
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