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Sony: step up your LENS game: A-Mount plea

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overeema View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote overeema Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2017 at 21:06
Originally posted by Steve-S Steve-S wrote:

In another thread, I was noting that Sony really needs more new-lens action in A-Mount to reassure the faithful; not just "v.2" lenses with new coatings and SSM-II upgrades but new optical designs. The current bodies are REALLY nice, and nice to have, and don't really show "lackof attention" or "time for a new model"...

---snip---

What else could Sony do? Something not "me-too" even vs. the 3rd-party lensmakers? How about matching the FF f/2.8 "pro trio" with a DT f/2 trio: 11-24 + 16-55 + 35-135 (all at F/2, all at least of "G" caliber) would be a REALLY close match to the FF trio of 16-35 + 24-70 + 70-200 (all at F/2.8). Bring them out with the a77mkIII (or whatever it's called); noting that "fast" is only part of that equation -- DOF/bokeh is also addressed! Note that I intentionally overlapped the 35mm-48mm range: I don't think it's a design challenge, and getting a bit more versatility as you cross the Normal-vs-ShortTele barrier seems like a no-brainer (I note that the 24-35 range is overlapped in ALL makers' FF/2.8 trilogies).

---snip---

I would almost certainly put a DT 10-24 F/2 G high on my wishlist and would seriously consider a DT 16-55 F/1.8 G (or Z) as a replacement for my aging DT 16-80 F/3,5-4,5 Z and a DT 30-150 F/2.4 as a replacement for my Minolta 28-135 F/4-4,5. (I changed the specs slightly). A DT 24-105 F/2 would also be very tempting
minolta owner since 1969; A350-SAL1680Z-SAL70300G-Tamron60F2-Minolta100F2-Minolta35105-Minolta28135-Minolta50F1.7; NEX6-SELP1650-SELP18105G (and some minolta MC/MD glass )
 



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Miranda F View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2017 at 10:02
Originally posted by overeema overeema wrote:

I would almost certainly put a DT 10-24 F/2 G high on my wishlist and would seriously consider a DT 16-55 F/1.8 G (or Z) as a replacement for my aging DT 16-80 F/3,5-4,5 Z and a DT 30-150 F/2.4 as a replacement for my Minolta 28-135 F/4-4,5. (I changed the specs slightly). A DT 24-105 F/2 would also be very tempting

A 24-105mm at f2 would be a big lens and the corners would be horrible, even if was only a DT. But given their stated disbelief in the entry-level DSLT market, I can't see them producing much new in APS-C. I think they ought to bring back the f3.5-4.5 version (FF) is which is nice and neat and useable on APS-C, FF, and film. I'd keep it screw-drive though for film compatibility.

Seriously, I can't see Sony doing many more A-mount DT lenses because there isn't a mass market for them any longer. Have you seen the s/h prices? The Tamron APS-C zooms are now available for about the same as a new ND filter!
Any new A-mount lenses are likely to be FF where they can charge five times the price.

I'd be happy to see some more 'easy-choice' FF primes like the 85mm, though.
Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A58, Nex-6, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras . . .
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2017 at 10:28
Originally posted by Steve-S Steve-S wrote:

Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Minolta had the almost legendary 200/4 Macro.

Indeed; and if Sony would just slap modern coatings and SSM-II onto the MinO 200/4Macro optical design, it would be a great thing for the A-Mount line!
Unfortunate it isn't easy to redesign a screw lens to fit SSM else Sony would redesigned the 135/1.8 with SSM. Also, AFAIK no screw driven lens was introduced with SSM - not Minolta, Sony, Nikon or Pentax did this. (Nikon had a AF-D and AF-S 80-200, but they're different optical designs)

Originally posted by overeema overeema wrote:

I would almost certainly put a DT 10-24 F/2 G high on my wishlist and would seriously consider a DT 16-55 F/1.8 G (or Z) as a replacement for my aging DT 16-80 F/3,5-4,5 Z and a DT 30-150 F/2.4 as a replacement for my Minolta 28-135 F/4-4,5. (I changed the specs slightly). A DT 24-105 F/2 would also be very tempting
These are quite unrealistic:

10-24/2 - a wide 2.4x zoom at f/2 will be huge, if at all possible at a decent price with current technology.
16-55/1.8 - Sigma did a 18-35/1.8, it is 810gr - a 16-55 will be significantly heavier, if at all possible at a decent price with current technology.
24-105/2 - Sigma did a 2x zoom 50-100/1.8, a 4.5x f/2 lens will be much, much bigger, if at all possible at a decent price with current technology.

The laws of physics didn't change.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2017 at 11:41
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:


Originally posted by overeema overeema wrote:

I would almost certainly put a DT 10-24 F/2 G high on my wishlist and would seriously consider a DT 16-55 F/1.8 G (or Z) as a replacement for my aging DT 16-80 F/3,5-4,5 Z and a DT 30-150 F/2.4 as a replacement for my Minolta 28-135 F/4-4,5. (I changed the specs slightly). A DT 24-105 F/2 would also be very tempting
These are quite unrealistic:

10-24/2 - a wide 2.4x zoom at f/2 will be huge, if at all possible at a decent price with current technology.
16-55/1.8 - Sigma did a 18-35/1.8, it is 810gr - a 16-55 will be significantly heavier, if at all possible at a decent price with current technology.
24-105/2 - Sigma did a 2x zoom 50-100/1.8, a 4.5x f/2 lens will be much, much bigger, if at all possible at a decent price with current technology.

The laws of physics didn't change.


The design may be easier in APS-C (DT) as Overeema was appearing to suggest, but are there *any* A-mount APS-C-only users prepared to pay premium FF prices for new DT lenses?
Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A58, Nex-6, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras . . .
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Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2017 at 14:32
Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

The design may be easier in APS-C (DT) as Overeema was appearing to suggest, but are there *any* A-mount APS-C-only users prepared to pay premium FF prices for new DT lenses?

Yeah, I am interested in a 50-135mm F2.8 lens, but I haven't been willing yet to order a used Sigma 50-150mm F2.8 for $500+ from Japan. I am interested in E-mount cameras, but I don't really want to pay $1000+ for a 70-300 F4.5-5.6.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2017 at 15:08
Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

The design may be easier in APS-C (DT) as Overeema was appearing to suggest, but are there *any* A-mount APS-C-only users prepared to pay premium FF prices for new DT lenses?
I noticed. But so are the Sigma 18-35/1.8 and 50-100/1.8 - both are 2x zooms for a reason.

If you look at the full frame 24-35/2 it is just a 1.5x zoom - in fact, it is a 28mm lens with a built in step back, step forward system
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Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2017 at 15:37
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

The design may be easier in APS-C (DT) as Overeema was appearing to suggest, but are there *any* A-mount APS-C-only users prepared to pay premium FF prices for new DT lenses?
I noticed. But so are the Sigma 18-35/1.8 and 50-100/1.8 - both are 2x zooms for a reason.

If you look at the full frame 24-35/2 it is just a 1.5x zoom - in fact, it is a 28mm lens with a built in step back, step forward system

It might be possible to make a full-frame/APS-C zoom that might have some of its range be APS-C only. There could be a switch to lock out that extra range when using the lens on full-frame. When there are 2 similar lenses the APS-C version has a bit more range--normally at the wide end.


I like this Minolta MD 50-135 F3.5. A full-frame 50-135 F2.8 might be interesting for both APS-C and FF users. I guess a lot of 70-200 F2.8 lenses are more like 70-135 F2.8 designs that only reach 200 mm at infinity.

Edited by QuietOC - 22 September 2017 at 21:10
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Post Options Post Options   Quote overeema Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2017 at 16:00
Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

---snip---
Seriously, I can't see Sony doing many more A-mount DT lenses because there isn't a mass market for them any longer. Have you seen the s/h prices? The Tamron APS-C zooms are now available for about the same as a new ND filter!
Any new A-mount lenses are likely to be FF where they can charge five times the price.

Let us not confuse commercial probability with a wishlist.
Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:


I'd be happy to see some more 'easy-choice' FF primes like the 85mm, though.

Personally I would be prepared to pay some money when at equal weight I could trade in FF capability for an extra stop of light. An extra stop of light increases my reach, whereas the bigger field of view of a FF lens is a waste of carrying weight for me.
I understand people with FF camera's have a different set of requirements as would have owners of bigger sized camera's (Hasselblad and the like). Most of my lenses are FF capable, but I only use the middle part of it, while carrying the whole lens. But even the current FF lineup is for me not tempting enough to consider investing in a FF body. It is chicken and egg. When Sony increases its lens lineup, they may sell more bodies; if they sell more bodies, they can sell more lenses. For the time being I am carefully watching the 2nd hand Minolta market for suitable opportunities, while Sony neglects the market potential that would attract me.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote artuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2017 at 18:17
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Originally posted by Steve-S Steve-S wrote:

Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Minolta had the almost legendary 200/4 Macro.

Indeed; and if Sony would just slap modern coatings and SSM-II onto the MinO 200/4Macro optical design, it would be a great thing for the A-Mount line!
Unfortunate it isn't easy to redesign a screw lens to fit SSM else Sony would redesigned the 135/1.8 with SSM. Also, AFAIK no screw driven lens was introduced with SSM - not Minolta, Sony, Nikon or Pentax did this. (Nikon had a AF-D and AF-S 80-200, but they're different optical designs)

Originally posted by overeema overeema wrote:

I would almost certainly put a DT 10-24 F/2 G high on my wishlist and would seriously consider a DT 16-55 F/1.8 G (or Z) as a replacement for my aging DT 16-80 F/3,5-4,5 Z and a DT 30-150 F/2.4 as a replacement for my Minolta 28-135 F/4-4,5. (I changed the specs slightly). A DT 24-105 F/2 would also be very tempting
These are quite unrealistic:

10-24/2 - a wide 2.4x zoom at f/2 will be huge, if at all possible at a decent price with current technology.
16-55/1.8 - Sigma did a 18-35/1.8, it is 810gr - a 16-55 will be significantly heavier, if at all possible at a decent price with current technology.
24-105/2 - Sigma did a 2x zoom 50-100/1.8, a 4.5x f/2 lens will be much, much bigger, if at all possible at a decent price with current technology.

The laws of physics didn't change.


As we are making up impossible lenses, I would like a full frame 12-300mm with an aperture never lower than f4, with f2.8 at the wide end, then f1.4 through wide to normal lengths to short tele, then f2.8 around 135mm with an STF feature, and then f2.8-4 all the way to the long end. Oh, and a fish eye setting at 16mm. And about 800g and less than £800.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2017 at 19:30
Originally posted by artuk artuk wrote:

As we are making up impossible lenses, I would like a full frame 12-300mm with an aperture never lower than f4, with f2.8 at the wide end, then f1.4 through wide to normal lengths to short tele, then f2.8 around 135mm with an STF feature, and then f2.8-4 all the way to the long end. Oh, and a fish eye setting at 16mm. And about 800g and less than £800.


Well, you can get most of that with a hyper-zoom compact. What, you want a medium-format sensor as well? .
Personally, I'm gradually moving away from anything with more than 4:1 zoom range and the best ones seem to be only 2:1. <Sigh> Back to carrying a lot of glass bottles around, as in pre-zoom days ...
Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A58, Nex-6, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras . . .
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Post Options Post Options   Quote artuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2017 at 19:59
Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

Originally posted by artuk artuk wrote:

As we are making up impossible lenses, I would like a full frame 12-300mm with an aperture never lower than f4, with f2.8 at the wide end, then f1.4 through wide to normal lengths to short tele, then f2.8 around 135mm with an STF feature, and then f2.8-4 all the way to the long end. Oh, and a fish eye setting at 16mm. And about 800g and less than £800.


Well, you can get most of that with a hyper-zoom compact. What, you want a medium-format sensor as well? .
Personally, I'm gradually moving away from anything with more than 4:1 zoom range and the best ones seem to be only 2:1. <Sigh> Back to carrying a lot of glass bottles around, as in pre-zoom days ...


I can't because my dream FF lens would offer:
12-24mm with f2.8, a 16mm fisheye setting
24-28mm f2
28-85mm f1.4
85-135mm f2.8 with a 135mm STF setting
135-300mm f2.8-4

£800 price
800g weight
unblemished optical performance as good as primes.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2017 at 20:18
I wonder if Sigma will release a full-frame variant of the 50-100 F1.8 like they did with the 18-35 F1.8 and 24-35 F2.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2017 at 21:23
Originally posted by QuietOC QuietOC wrote:

I wonder if Sigma will release a full-frame variant of the 50-100 F1.8 like they did with the 18-35 F1.8 and 24-35 F2.
18-35 is about 27-52 - a full frame version of the 50-100 won't be 75-150 but 100-150 or 75-110... And I don't think the 24-35 sells well...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote artuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2017 at 21:36
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Originally posted by QuietOC QuietOC wrote:

I wonder if Sigma will release a full-frame variant of the 50-100 F1.8 like they did with the 18-35 F1.8 and 24-35 F2.
18-35 is about 27-52 - a full frame version of the 50-100 won't be 75-150 but 100-150 or 75-110... And I don't think the 24-35 sells well...


24-35 is such a limited and slightly "Unappealing" range - I understand a 24-35mm zoom as good a primes is appealing (24/28/35) but it just seems a bit.... limited.
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