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Sony's EVIL GUI revealed (a bit) in CP+

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Sondermann View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sondermann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 22:00
Originally posted by douglasf13 douglasf13 wrote:

   If the 16mm 2.8 is true, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why release your only prime as a wide angle, rather than the more obvious 35mm or 50mm (equivalent) lens


Because a 16mm is smaller probably.
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote douglasf13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 22:29
Originally posted by karaatanasov karaatanasov wrote:

16/2.8 is interesting but not necessarily bad choice - wide angle is cool. No body offers this wide prime fro EVIL cameras at present. I imagine it is nice for taking street shots. It is strange but will set the system apart from the competition.

In terms of classic 24 or 28 would be better choice than 35.

18-55 is kit lens - no more, no less


I'm all for Sony setting themselves apart, but I'm not convinced. How many A900 users here shoot the 24 2.8 as their main walk around lens? I'm sure it isn't the majority.

Roweraay, I certainly expect Sony to bring more primes, but time is becoming an issue for me. If they don't show me a small standard lens soon, I'll have to move to another brand to find my A900 complimentary camera.

As for size, if anything, the 16mm is probably a little bigger than a standard equivalent. Look at Samsung's 30mm f2 lens for their APS-C based NX10. Samsung is supposed to show some new EVILS, and I may go that direction unless Sony shows what primes are coming in the future:



I hope the rumors are wrong, personally, and I'll hold on to my wish that the Sony prime is similar to this Samsung in specs. :)



Edited by douglasf13 - 20 April 2010 at 22:30
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Post Options Post Options   Quote shinka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 22:35
I agree Douglas. That's why I find the 20/1.7 on the Panasonic to be more compelling. It's closer to 'normal' than the 17/2.8 and far closer than the 16/2.8 would be on an APS-C body.

I know it's too early to make a decision, but I haven't heard anything about these Sony cameras that makes them more compelling than the Olympus, Panasonic or Samsung cameras.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote roweraay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 23:07
Originally posted by douglasf13 douglasf13 wrote:

    Roweraay, I certainly expect Sony to bring more primes, but time is becoming an issue for me. If they don't show me a small standard lens soon, I'll have to move to another brand to find my A900 complimentary camera.


What I meant earlier was that they would be releasing more than one prime, along with the camera. It does not make ANY sense to release a 24mm equivalent (in 35mm terms, assuming this is an APS-C sensor) as the *only* prime, when releasing a new product.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CTYankee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2010 at 03:22
Originally posted by roweraay roweraay wrote:

Originally posted by douglasf13 douglasf13 wrote:

   If the 16mm 2.8 is true, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why release your only prime as a wide angle, rather than the more obvious 35mm or 50mm (equivalent) lens? Not to mention that the rumored zoom goes down to 18mm already.



This is one of the major turnoffs for me about the Sony. I like the GF1 except for lack of IBIS (since the 20/1.7 would be my main lens ... actually, this combo is as close as I ever could have asked to my digital 7sII !) I don't care for the Oly's AF or controls, but like the jpeg output and IBIS. Samsung NX10 seems a little underdeveloped. Sony's touch screen doesn't sound ideal, but I could live with it if there were other reasons to go for it. 16/2.8 means no lenses I'm interested in. An Alpha adapter with AF and aperture controls would be intriguing as my 28/2 and 50/1.4 would go nicely (though not nearly as compact as a native pancake lens).

Originally posted by roweraay roweraay wrote:


They may very well be releasing a 16mm f/2.8 prime. But that does not mean, in any way shape or form, that there will NOT be other primes released along with it.


It doesn't mean that, but on the other hand, given the direction I've seen in the Alpha line over the last few years, I would assume there would be no more primes until I saw an official announcement.

That's probably true of any of the EVIL systems ... don't bet big on what they might offer down the road.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PhotoTraveler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2010 at 03:30
The reason for 16mm is very very simple.   You need a lens that is wide as practical. A user can always crop to go more tele with it. But if you came out with a 35 or 50mm equivalent (instead of 24mm equivalent) you would have the same issue that P&S cameras have historically had...not wide angle enough.

Most P&S do in the realm of 28-35mm equivalent as their widest. So offering a camera to P&S people that has better image quality than their P&S, and a little lens that gets them wider than they have ever had as an option is a huge plus.

If they brought out a 12 or 14mm, that would be even better, but they probably drew a practical line in the sand. Also Sony has been pretty big into 16mm, with the 16-80, 16-105, 16-35. It works out as a very nice number because with crop factor you get 24mm, which is right where most FF zooms start at anymore (24-70, 24-105). This is where the 18-55 was rather oddball and broke from the nice trend Sony had and went with being common to the other players.

Additionally, one of the main selling points about an EVIL style camera is the wide angle ability with a small cheaper(er) lens over a DSLR. So offering a 16mm that is in-expensive yet very very good is the perfect way to show this. Unless they go ultra cheap on the lens, if it's designed for any level of quality, it's very realistic to expect it's performance to be better than the 16-35ZA (if the ZA was on an APS body). If a reviewer makes that comparison, it will be an impressive sales pitch.

I'm sure more standard and tele primes will come in time. But it's more important to have as wide as possible if you only have one lens to work with than anything else.
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote albnok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2010 at 04:15
I say they pitched the 16mm F2.8 first, as the best lens to use Sweep Panorama with. (Worse is if they decide it's the only lens that is compatible with Sweep Panorama.)

My Sony Cybershot WX1, with Sweep Panorama, can only do it when zoomed out to 24mm equivalent.

And yes, I've always loved 24mm or equivalent - not 28mm, not 35mm. Give me 24mm and 50mm pancakes!

For all we know, that rumored 85mm F2.8 DT is actually a pancake for the EVIL Sony. Or a little bit off the pancake size, like the Pentax Limited series - the 77mm F1.8 and 70mm F2.4 are prime examples - refer here:

http://pentaxlife.com/comparing-lenses

That makes me wonder - when is Pentax going to make an EVIL? It's too bad they aren't in ties with Samsung anymore (or so we think) or else their system would have the most pancakes!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CTYankee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2010 at 04:22
PT, not to overstate the obvious, but the P&S problem is a problem because they're fixed lens cameras :) Of course, that suggests you have to have a WA. But that could be added later after a normal pancake, either as another pancake lens or as an ultrawide zoom. It would be wonderful to have an EVIL system with 3 pancakes: WA, normal & short tele. I won't hold my breath though. Panasonic & Oly seem content to round out the lineup with oversized lenses and Samsung is doing the same thing as Panasonic (making the portrait length lens an f/2.8 macro). And Sony is going to cater to amateurs, not enthusiasts.

You suggest that digicam users want something wider. I counter that digicam users want something faster that offers shallow DOF.

It may sway some buyers. I'm betting some EVIL shoppers who've been waiting for Sony specs will opt for m43 instead, though.

Where I have trouble is getting into the mindset of the consumer, because clearly that's where these products are aimed. Opinions will vary among enthusiasts; some would prefer 28, 35, 40, 43, 45, 50, 58 ! I hear plenty of people say the 20/1.7 is their reason for getting into micro 4/3 (and many buy that lens and put it on an Oly for IBIS). But will the consumer be more impressed with the WA ? I don't know.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Almazar80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2010 at 04:23
Everybody has a different standard for "normal" - which makes it a high probability that there will be several lenses at launch. I like the idea of a 16mm pancake lens, but a faster 30mm or so lens would also be great to have. I'd really like a fast 70mm or so lens, but we have to remember where the products are being pitched at initially.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote douglasf13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2010 at 05:24
Don't get me wrong, I certainly want a wide prime for my forray into EVIL. My ideal setup would be approximately a 24, 50 and 85 prime (equivalent.) However, I would use the 50mm 80%+ of the time, so I need to see that lens before I buy. Right now, the Panny 20 1.7 on an Olympus m4/3 is my best option, it appears.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PhotoTraveler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2010 at 05:53
To be perfectly honest, I don't think many digicam users know what faster or shallow DOF means. So I doubt they are looking for it. But they do know when they are inside, or in a car, etc that they often can't zoom out wide enough.

On the 1.7/20.   Well, it's one of only 2 pancake lenses they have right now (the 2.8/17 being the other). So it's the best they can do. People like it because it's a tiny prime lens. It's not the specific specs. I don't know how much interest there is in the 17. But I suspect it's because it's not fast, and it's not wide. So not that interesting. a 2.8/35 isn't interesting unless it's a macro. But further, there is the 12mm on the roadmap. Folks are excited about it, and of course that works out to 24mm.   So it becomes interesting.

There will always be more lenses, but you have to start with something. But for sure, the matter that you can always crop to get you that bit longer focal makes a wider lens a much better choice if you can only manage a couple (2-3 lenses) at launch.

Originally posted by CTYankee CTYankee wrote:

PT, not to overstate the obvious, but the P&S problem is a problem because they're fixed lens cameras :) Of course, that suggests you have to have a WA. But that could be added later after a normal pancake, either as another pancake lens or as an ultrawide zoom. It would be wonderful to have an EVIL system with 3 pancakes: WA, normal & short tele. I won't hold my breath though. Panasonic & Oly seem content to round out the lineup with oversized lenses and Samsung is doing the same thing as Panasonic (making the portrait length lens an f/2.8 macro). And Sony is going to cater to amateurs, not enthusiasts.

You suggest that digicam users want something wider. I counter that digicam users want something faster that offers shallow DOF.

It may sway some buyers. I'm betting some EVIL shoppers who've been waiting for Sony specs will opt for m43 instead, though.

Where I have trouble is getting into the mindset of the consumer, because clearly that's where these products are aimed. Opinions will vary among enthusiasts; some would prefer 28, 35, 40, 43, 45, 50, 58 ! I hear plenty of people say the 20/1.7 is their reason for getting into micro 4/3 (and many buy that lens and put it on an Oly for IBIS). But will the consumer be more impressed with the WA ? I don't know.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote albnok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2010 at 09:20
I wonder if the 'other' lenses Sony says they planned to launch in 2010, are all these NEX mount lenses. So that's 3 NEX and 2 A-mount.

I still think the 16mm is picked to show off their Sweep Panorama feature, to debut in an interchangeable lens camera (be it EVIL or dSLR). 35mm might not look too impressive with it, or might be computationally difficult.

And isn't 16mm on APS-C the photojournalist's dream? Though I doubt you'll see this camera in war...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hoge-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2010 at 11:23
I just read from the gossip site that Samsung with Schneider have following roadmap for NX system:

2010:
-15mm f/2.3 Super-Angulon
-21mm f/2 Super-Angulon
-35mm f/1.4 Xenon
-55mm f/1.4 Xenon

2011:
-90mm f/1.8 Tele-Xenar
-70mm f/2.8 Claron (Macro)

Now THAT's an EVIL system! If it turns out to be true, it is likely Samsung will win pro's attention and reputation for being the pro mirrorless system!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nitrosyl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2010 at 15:47
But gossip is just what it is: GOSSIP.
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