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TC Guide II 200/2.8 + 1.4X 1.7X 2X Tests

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Post Options Post Options   Quote eccl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: TC Guide II 200/2.8 + 1.4X 1.7X 2X Tests
    Posted: 25 October 2007 at 07:07
TC Guide Version II (Part 1 200mm & TCs):
================================================

Any user of TC or potential user of TC will always want to know how good or bad is a particular TC when used with a particular lens before making their purchasing decision. In other words, how much quality loss will one get by adding a particular TC to a lens.

The short answer is from 5-10% loss to 20-30% quality lost depending on the following factor:

1) OEM Matched or Dedicated TC (between 5-10%)
Minolta APO, KM APO or Sony APO or Sigma EX

2) Pro series TC (Kenko Pro 300, Pro 300 DG or Tamron SP) (5-15%)
Image quality will always better than generic TC

3) 1.4X or 2X (5-10% vs 10-20%)
1.4X TC will always give better image quality than 2X

4) F stop being used (Wide open vs Stop down)
Shooting stop down will always yield better image quality than shooting wide open. This is especially critical for lens that has better performance at smaller aperture.

5) MC7 (7 Elements) vs MC4 (4 Elements)
7 Elements TC in most cases will give better image quality than 4 Elements version.

6) Prime vs Zoom
Using a prime lens in most cases will yield better image quality than zoom lens.

7) AF vs MF
If the TC and lens combination will not be able to AF < F4.5 for 1.4XTC or < F5.6 for 2X TC. How good/accurate can you MF the lens if the viewfinder is dim?

The above factors or combination of factors will directly affected the image quality.

Bottom Line:

- Use dedicated matched TC whenever possible.
- Use 1.4X if you do not need 2X
- Use Kenko Pro 300 (DG)/Tamron SP if this converter fits your lens
- Use a 7 Elements TC
- Stop down your lens if you have a regular TC and still want sharp results.

Anyone remember GIGO (Garbage in garbage out), this also applies to lens and TC combination. If you start with a fast sharp lens and use a dedicated/matched TC you will always get excellent image quality. If you start with a slow unsharp lens, even if you use the best TC, your results will not be very good.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Part 1 200mm telephoto and teleconverters test results:

Minolta 200mm F2.8 APO is one of the sharpest lens in Minolta lineup, lets see the resulting image of using with different TCs

Minolta 200/2.8 APO G is tested with the following TCs:

1) Minolta APO 1.4X ver II
2) Minolta APO 2X ver II
3) Tamron SP 1.4X
4) Tamron SP 2X
5) Vivitar 1.4X
6) Vivitar 2X (MC7)
7) Promaster 1.7X
8) Kenko 2X (MC7)
9) Phoenix C/D 2X (MC7)

The last 2 sets of tests compare 200/2.8 + 2X TC vs a 400mm prime and a 100-400 Telephoto zoom at 400mm.

Minolta 200/2.8 APO + APO 2X vs
Sigma 400/5.6 APO TELEMACRO
Minolta 100-400 APO Tele Zoom
@ 400mm both wide open and @ F16

I'll let the pictures do the talking.

200mm original @ F2.8



200mm original image zoom to 140% @ F2.8, F8 and F16



1.4X TCs Compare Center @ F4


1.4X TCs Compare Edge @ F4


1.4X TCs Compare Center @ F11


1.4X TCs Compare Edge @ F11



200mm original image zoom to 200% @ F2.8, F8 and F16


2X TCs Compare Center @ F5.6


2X TC Compare Edge @ F5.6


2X TCs Compare Centre @ F16


2X TCs Compare Edge @ F16


1.7X & 2X Compare Center @F2.8 & F5.6


1.7X & 2X Compare Edge @F8 & F16


1.7X & 2X Compare Center @F8 & F16


1.7X & 2X Compare Edge @ F8 & F16


200 APO +2X APO TC vs Sigma 400 APO TELEMACRO vs 100-400 APO Centre Wide Open


200 APO + 2X APO TC vs Sigma 400 APO TELEMACRO vs 100-400 APO Edge Wide Open


200 APO + 2X APO TC vs Sigma 400 APO TELEMACRO vs 100-400 APO Center F16


200 APO + 2X APO TC vs Sigma 400 APO TELEMACRO vs 100-400 APO Edge F16


This guide will be updated with similar tests of prime and zooms. The next one will be 70-210/4 (Beercan). Stay tuned.

Comment or suggestion welcome.
eccl

Edited by eccl - 18 November 2007 at 04:17
16/2.8 24/2.8 28/2 28/2.8 35/2 50/1.4 50/1.7 50/2.8 85/1.4 100/2 100/2.8 180/3.5 200/2.8 300/4 400/5.6 500/7.2 500/8

Zoom, TC and other lenses too numerous to list!
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote jrfarrar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2007 at 18:03

Fantastic and thanks for your time doing that!

Of course you knew I was going to ask for more though right?

How about adding in the exact same crop but just with the 200/2.8? Show the difference in blowing up vs adding TC?

Clearly the matched converter outperformed but I was surprised how much difference in color between them.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gsaronni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2007 at 18:15
Great work. Someday I will get the Minolta 2X APO TC, but still not decided because I dont know if my 200G is HS or not(the seller told it was upgraded, but I dont know how to check)

Wich version would be more interesting, the I or II? I have heard the II version is very slow with non HS 200G

Regards
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ab012 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2007 at 18:20
very interesting results. damn the 200G is good

with the 200G+2xAPO - is the change in colour of the 'united' when wide open CA or something else?
Bernard

fun fun fun
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dd001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2007 at 18:29
Wow, nice and interesting comparison, thanks for taking the time to do it!

David

PS: One typo I think:
The last item should not be:
200 APO + 2X APO TC vs Sigma 400 APO TELEMACRO vs 100-400 APO Center F16
But
200 APO + 2X APO TC vs Sigma 400 APO TELEMACRO vs 100-400 APO Edge F16
David - My Gallery
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eccl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2007 at 21:05
Originally posted by jrfarrar jrfarrar wrote:


Fantastic and thanks for your time doing that!

Of course you knew I was going to ask for more though right?

How about adding in the exact same crop but just with the 200/2.8? Show the difference in blowing up vs adding TC?

Clearly the matched converter outperformed but I was surprised how much difference in color between them.


Good idea, I'll try to add the same crop of the 200/2.8 blow up 1.4 times and 2 times.

I was surprised too regarding the color as I have not changed anything on my camera (A100 AWB on tripod 2sec mirror locked up with RC-1000S) just using different TC.
16/2.8 24/2.8 28/2 28/2.8 35/2 50/1.4 50/1.7 50/2.8 85/1.4 100/2 100/2.8 180/3.5 200/2.8 300/4 400/5.6 500/7.2 500/8

Zoom, TC and other lenses too numerous to list!
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote eccl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2007 at 21:08
Originally posted by gsaronni gsaronni wrote:

Great work. Someday I will get the Minolta 2X APO TC, but still not decided because I dont know if my 200G is HS or not(the seller told it was upgraded, but I dont know how to check)

Wich version would be more interesting, the I or II? I have heard the II version is very slow with non HS 200G

Regards


If the 200 G is HS it should have a focus hold button. I only use ver II or D or Sony TC with my 200 G. I believe ver I has faster focusing due to the difference in gearing ratio. You cannot go wrong with either ver I or ver II as the optical still remain the same.
16/2.8 24/2.8 28/2 28/2.8 35/2 50/1.4 50/1.7 50/2.8 85/1.4 100/2 100/2.8 180/3.5 200/2.8 300/4 400/5.6 500/7.2 500/8

Zoom, TC and other lenses too numerous to list!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eccl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2007 at 21:09
Originally posted by dd001 dd001 wrote:

Wow, nice and interesting comparison, thanks for taking the time to do it!

David

PS: One typo I think:
The last item should not be:
200 APO + 2X APO TC vs Sigma 400 APO TELEMACRO vs 100-400 APO Center F16
But
200 APO + 2X APO TC vs Sigma 400 APO TELEMACRO vs 100-400 APO Edge F16


Thank you for letting me know. I have fixed the typo
16/2.8 24/2.8 28/2 28/2.8 35/2 50/1.4 50/1.7 50/2.8 85/1.4 100/2 100/2.8 180/3.5 200/2.8 300/4 400/5.6 500/7.2 500/8

Zoom, TC and other lenses too numerous to list!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eccl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2007 at 21:12
Originally posted by ab012 ab012 wrote:

very interesting results. damn the 200G is good

with the 200G+2xAPO - is the change in colour of the 'united' when wide open CA or something else?


I believe the TC has something to do with the color cast.
16/2.8 24/2.8 28/2 28/2.8 35/2 50/1.4 50/1.7 50/2.8 85/1.4 100/2 100/2.8 180/3.5 200/2.8 300/4 400/5.6 500/7.2 500/8

Zoom, TC and other lenses too numerous to list!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote brettania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 October 2007 at 09:49

As usual Ed you have come up with something informative and useful -- a magnum opus on tcons.

Thanks very much.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote revdocjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 October 2007 at 14:25
Originally posted by eccl eccl wrote:



If the 200 G is HS it should have a focus hold button.


Yes, but I believe he was wondering whether his was an upgraded original or not. The original doesn't have the focus hold button but if it has been upgraded I believe the AF speed is similar to the newer version. I don't know an absolute way to verify if it has been upgraded...

Originally posted by eccl eccl wrote:


I only use ver II or D or Sony TC with my 200 G. I believe ver I has faster focusing due to the difference in gearing ratio. You cannot go wrong with either ver I or ver II as the optical still remain the same.


I recently switched from a ver.II to a ver.I on my 1.4X
The ver.II has a gear ratio of 1:2, where as the ver.I is 1:1
I have visually verified this difference. I have experienced no problems at all with either version T/C on the 200G. Ver.I is faster though. Same speed as without any T/C at all.

I haven't found a ver.I 2X yet so I'm still using the ver.II
The gear ration on the ver.II 2X is 1:4 but I'm not sure what the gear ration is for the ver.I 2X My guess would be 1:2

This test was very helpful for me because I never realized what a difference stopping down makes. Without the T/C the 200 is such a sharp lens that I never worry about stopping down. Also, I guess I somehow thought that at f/4 with the 1.4X or f/5.6 with the 2X you are already stopped down but the fact of the matter is that the lens is wide open.

Thanks for the great info.
Gallery A7S, A7Rii, Batis 18/2.8, 25/2 Sony 35/2.8, 55/1.8, 90/2.8M, 24-105/4, Minolta 135STF, 200/2.8 Blog
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bengeo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 October 2007 at 14:57

Very interesting comparison. One thing I did notice was that the "1.4X TCs Compare Center @ F4" 200 + 1.4x image says "F22" on it?

Andy
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tankm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 October 2007 at 15:26
Thanks for sharing. Great info and useful information for all.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eccl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 October 2007 at 16:43
Originally posted by bengeo bengeo wrote:


Very interesting comparison. One thing I did notice was that the "1.4X TCs Compare Center @ F4" 200 + 1.4x image says "F22" on it?

Andy


Oops, I picked the wrong picture, I'll update it with the correct one ASAP. Thanks for letting me know.


16/2.8 24/2.8 28/2 28/2.8 35/2 50/1.4 50/1.7 50/2.8 85/1.4 100/2 100/2.8 180/3.5 200/2.8 300/4 400/5.6 500/7.2 500/8

Zoom, TC and other lenses too numerous to list!
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