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Topic ClosedThe A77 thread (cont'd)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2011 at 13:35
It all depends on how fast the machine clears the buffer and how slow the framerate while it is doing it. Until someone sits down with the latest UHS SD cards or memory sticks and does some buffer tests, we won't know for sure.

The a700 with a non-UDMA card locks up hard after it hits the buffer, while a faster card will at least slow to 3 FPS, for instance.
 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2011 at 13:31
Originally posted by RubberDials RubberDials wrote:

<snip>
I'm not a sports or action shooter so shoot me down if I'm wrong here, but isn't it unlikely that people would want to shoot long sequences in RAW at 24MP? That's a lot of post-processing and file management. I doubt if there's a professional sports photographer on the planet who shoots RAW, but I could be wrong.

The camera also shoots at 12mp and presumably this would give you more headroom if you required it, even more if you switched to jpeg. The Canon 1D mk IV - most's people's idea of a high speed cam can shoot between 23 and 32 frames 16MP (depending on the ISO) at RAW before the buffer is full, so I think the A77 performance is creditable.


Agreed - which makes it odd that the 1D has a fine JPEG burst depth of 121 frames (about 5 times the RAW depth) yet the A77's fine JPEG depth is only slightly more than the RAW (at 17 vs 13 RAW)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2011 at 13:13
RubberDials wrote:

I'm not a sports or action shooter so shoot me down if I'm wrong here, but isn't it unlikely that people would want to shoot long sequences in RAW at 24MP? That's a lot of post-processing and file management.


Not saying you're wrong, but if it's a "spray and prey" burst only one or two frames of the "peak moment" will have to be developed.


As someone who uses Sony 700s for all my Karting motorsport work _ i am enthusiastic to try the camera but concerned about things such as this buffer situation and the fact we only have SD cards which are generally slower than CF - (hopefully someone will prove me wrong on this)
As for the burst rate and producing a high workload - I personally dont use continuous that much, but it is actually switched onfor those occasions when an incident happens in front of you - problem is a sequence of karts climbing over each other etc could take several seconds - a 1sec burst filling the buffer does not sound good - again someone prove me wrong as my 700s are getting old now
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2011 at 12:39
I agree with the 16MP idea. I'm using a Pentax K5 and the sensor is wonderful. Really low shadow noise. Beautiful, clean low iso (reminds me of my old a100) and very useable high ISO. Perhaps Sony will achieve similar results with the 24MP with the final firmware, but the lower max iso makes me think otherwise.

Interesting to see what Nikon does. It seems like a foregone conclusion that they'll use the 24MP sensor in the D400, but if they used the 16MP sensor and were able to better what they got out of it with the D7000 (which many consider the cream of the APS-C for IQ), that may really leave Sony out on a limb. We'll see.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2011 at 12:24
Originally posted by maewpa maewpa wrote:

[QUOTE=twm47099] ......
Unrelated and on reflection I'm wishing they hadn't bothered with the 24MP - at 16MP it might have been a near-perfect camera for me (well, a near-perfect specification EVF camera with movie function I won't use!). Still have high hopes for it, though and it looks like it will be a lot of fun to use.


I completely agree.

It's a backward step from Sony if image quality/high ISO isn't even as good as the A55! We shall see though. I've just seen an image comparison between the A77 and a Sony NEX5. The images(s) were resized and the A77 image was much noisier.

On a side note, aren't Nikon going to be using the exact same sensor as the A77? They must be happy with it. Or maybe their sensor 'tweaks' are better than Sony's?

Anyway, I'm holding fire on my opinion and purchase until proper reviews appear from people here on Dyxum and elsewhere.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2011 at 11:57
Originally posted by RubberDials RubberDials wrote:

I'm not a sports or action shooter so shoot me down if I'm wrong here, but isn't it unlikely that people would want to shoot long sequences in RAW at 24MP? That's a lot of post-processing and file management.


Not saying you're wrong, but if it's a "spray and prey" burst only one or two frames of the "peak moment" will have to be developed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2011 at 11:52
Some good Video and still samples here:

http://vimeo.com/28075979

Edited by FX - 25 August 2011 at 12:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2011 at 11:50
Originally posted by mawz mawz wrote:

The only serious beef I'm seeing on the spec is the anemic buffer. The A77 and A65 with a 13 shot RAW/17 Shot JPEG Fine buffer have a distinct disadvantage compared to the A55 (20 RAW, 35 JPEG Fine) or A700 (18 RAW, unlimited JPEG Fine). I'm not sure what Sony was thinking here, as you'll max out the buffer in slightly over 2s in the best configuration at 8fps (that would be JPEG fine) where the A55 gets 5 seconds at its most similar config (7fps, JPEG fine) and the A700 will shoot until the card fills in its closest config (5fps, JPEG fine). Essentially the best configuration for the A77 (8fps, JPEG Fine) matches the worst config for the A55 (10fps, RAW) in burst length.


I'm not a sports or action shooter so shoot me down if I'm wrong here, but isn't it unlikely that people would want to shoot long sequences in RAW at 24MP? That's a lot of post-processing and file management. I doubt if there's a professional sports photographer on the planet who shoots RAW, but I could be wrong.

The camera also shoots at 12mp and presumably this would give you more headroom if you required it, even more if you switched to jpeg. The Canon 1D mk IV - most's people's idea of a high speed cam can shoot between 23 and 32 frames 16MP (depending on the ISO) at RAW before the buffer is full, so I think the A77 performance is creditable.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2011 at 09:19
artuk: I tried an A77 with a F43, to trigger my F43. In the menu it said Version 1.00. However they did not have final production firmware in it.

Given my experience with the F43 being exactly as the F58 (plus some fixes) I can be optimistic that if the F43 works, the F58 should work as well, but the F20 would probably not work.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2011 at 08:54
Originally posted by artuk artuk wrote:

Last of quick navi is a really big disappointment, that means the "Fn" menu is going to be something similar to that found on other existing cameras? (which is a pain ergonomically - although I appreciate some buttons can be customised etc etc).
Since the Fn-menu in new cameras follows the path of α55's Fn-menu, I wouldn't call it that horrible: you can still adjust the chosen settings item's value also quickly with the control wheel, although the overlay display which shows the available values may bit distract the live view and it might be slightly slower to pick the specific settings item from the two rows on sides than it was on old QuickNavi display.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2011 at 07:58
Originally posted by twm47099 twm47099 wrote:

No "NR Off" -- I guess Sony enjoyed all the early comments they got when they released the A700. Or maybe the A700 NR designer was on a Sabbatical and came back for the A77 design, but Oh well there's always a future firmware v4.


Are you saying the NR will affect the RAW files, like initially with the A700? That would be very, very disappointing, but I would be very surprised if it is true. Did I miss some news?

Unrelated and on reflection I'm wishing they hadn't bothered with the 24MP - at 16MP it might have been a near-perfect camera for me (well, a near-perfect specification EVF camera with movie function I won't use!). Still have high hopes for it, though and it looks like it will be a lot of fun to use.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2011 at 07:42
Originally posted by albnok albnok wrote:

al, I forgot to check.

Oh yeah the A77 has wireless controller capability - it can use the F43 to trigger another F43. I forgot to test the F20 on it, though.


What about other flash guns with wireless controller capability? David KP suggested the 58 gun would not work as a controller... is this true? (seems weird).

Last of quick navi is a really big disappointment, that means the "Fn" menu is going to be something similar to that found on other existing cameras? (which is a pain ergonomically - although I appreciate some buttons can be customised etc etc).
Art
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2011 at 06:07
Originally posted by twm47099 twm47099 wrote:

Same price as the A700 but:

No Quick Nav: Users of all other cameras are so used to menu diving that this will make a change to Sony less stressful. (along with the Nikon on-off switch)

No "NR Off" -- I guess Sony enjoyed all the early comments they got when they released the A700. Or maybe the A700 NR designer was on a Sabbatical and came back for the A77 design, but Oh well there's always a future firmware v4.

But they did add the "?" button. That was something many missed on the A700 (and I guess the A900 also.) Now we finally will have an advanced level camera with "The '?' button gives access to a shooting guide or an explanation of the current menu option." Don't know how I've lived without it. Now I can laugh at my Canikon friends.

Hopefully, Mr Sony Manager will learn photography and outgrow his need for that.

tom


FWIW, the bigger issue with the A700 wasn't just that it didn't have an NR OFF setting, it was that the JPEG NR setting also affected RAW files. My NEX-5 doesn't have an NR off setting, either, but it doesn't affect the raw files like the A700 initially did, so it doesn't make a difference to me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2011 at 05:13
al, I forgot to check.

Oh yeah the A77 has wireless controller capability - it can use the F43 to trigger another F43. I forgot to test the F20 on it, though.
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