The A77 thread (cont'd)

SilhouPirou wrote: ... I don't care for APS-C either, in-fact I'm surprised they are still making it. I see all manufacturers are filling out another niche now to fund the big daddy FF Lineup and lenses ...

To abuse Sam Clemens (yet again), "Rumors of the death of aps-c have been greatly exagerated."

We can be confident that aps-c is here for quite some time: FF sensors cost a LOT more to make. FF lenses are usually bigger and heavier (for a similar FOV) -- often by a large amount! Since the cost can't be pulled down far enough, the entry-level and step-up SLR (& Sony SLT) models will remain the domain of aps-c sensors for the foreseeable future.

And it's the (high-volume!!!) low/mid market where the profit is. Top-end stuff just doesn't sell in enough volume; even if the margin is dramatically higher with FF, the total profit per model of camera, over the lifetime of the model via the OEM, is dramatically lower.

With such a huge aps-c market, a series of step-ups culminating in a high-end / semi-pro aps-c model logically sits at the top of THAT heap, with FF models starting about there, and moving up-market (in terms of features/cost).

FWIW -- if any maker is poised to get rid of aps-c, it's Sony. Eliminating the mirror means the SLT models can be smaller and CHEAPER. I expect Sony to shock the FF market -- again! -- in 2012, and to bring out a FF model below $US1000 a generation or two after that...

Masters of the obvious - Dept chairman of redundancy dept.

I see all manufacturers are filling out another niche now to fund the big daddy FF Lineup and lenses ...And it's the (high-volume!!!) low/mid market where the profit is. Top-end stuff just doesn't sell in enough volume. Of course!

FWIW -- if any maker is poised to get rid of aps-c, it's Sony. Eliminating the mirror means the SLT models can be smaller and CHEAPER. I expect Sony to shock the FF market -- again! -- in 2012, and to bring out a FF model below $US1000 a generation or two after that...

All the above is what I implied with" Drop the crop and go Full Frame in this body now That would be a leap forward for sure!"

If we follow Moore's law about technology, which most Corp's and their new tech releases do- the break through is in line with what we are both saying. Now Sony simply has a shift to APS-c either for one or more reasons, fan following /current product support, or another incarnation/generation before the trickle down effect of bigger censors in the smaller bodies takes place. They can do it know. It's all about planned obsolescence, don't be fooled. Besides this goes hand in hand with the smaller lighter faster better cheaper mentality you refer too.

Fake or not, the button placement and the overall shape matches that of the transparent model from the first post of the previous A77 thread.

I did not expect to see what looks like the teleconverter button (AKA invalid operation button) from my old A300, but if its main purpose on the A77 is to enable magnification (i.e. MF assist) in the VF, it actually deserves that spot.

SilhouPirou wrote: FWIW -- if any maker is poised to get rid of aps-c, it's Sony. Eliminating the mirror means the SLT models can be smaller and CHEAPER. I expect Sony to shock the FF market -- again! -- in 2012, and to bring out a FF model below $US1000 a generation or two after that... All the above is what I implied with" Drop the crop and go Full Frame in this body now That would be a leap forward for sure!" If we follow Moore's law about technology, which most Corp's and their new tech releases do- the break through is in line with what we are both saying. Now Sony simply has a shift to APS-c either for one or more reasons, fan following /current product support, or another incarnation/generation before the trickle down effect of bigger censors in the smaller bodies takes place. They can do it know. It's all about planned obsolescence, don't be fooled. Besides this goes hand in hand with the smaller lighter faster better cheaper mentality you refer too.

Hmm. I guess I didn't state my main thesis clearly enough:

Sony can't -- YET -- abandon the aps-c market. FF costs are still FAR too high to bring a FF model out that's price-competitive with the aps-c entry levels. Sony "can" do it now, but it would lose them either market-share (if they weren't priced to compete) or money (they'd have to sell at a loss to compete on price). I expect that neither option is palatable to them!

And don't forget the sheer physics/optics that mean aps-c (DT,EF-S,DX) LENSES will be smaller and cheaper -- more or less "forever" -- which will give a price advantage to any system or "line" with aps-c sensors over FF sensors.

Last but not least, remember that "trickle down" will work both ways: as SLT and other technologies "trickle down" to the FF market, and FF bodies get cheaper... aps-c technologies will advance, and make THOSE bodies cheaper still. FF models may in fact NEVER become price-competitive with aps-c entry-level models (though I expect the time will come when low-end FF and high-end aps-c models (from the same maker) will be comparably-priced).


- Steve S.

sybersitizen wrote: Raccoon wrote: A lot of people such as Sybersitizen will soon be eating humble pie for not recognizing the obvious real deal (as in finalized official design). If it turns out that way, so be it. But one also has to wonder about the credibility of people joining the forum today just for the purpose of posting and defending the photo.

The photos speak for themselves. They don't need my defending.

Assuming the photos are real or anything close to an accurate representation of the new camera, I'm a bit surprised that only a couple of people have picked up on the "problem" that Sony is apparently moving more key functions to menu items from dedicated buttons or switches. There is no metering mode selection switch, or SS switch, which would both now appear to be menu items (bad in both cases). The "C" button also has been removed which eliminates a customizable button to access another feature that either should not require menu diving or at a minimum should have direct access (I use mine for focus mode - wide area, center only, or manual selection of AF sensor).

It would seem that the loss of these direct controls, or direct access buttons, is a result of the larger rear-LCD mechanism to allow the tilting/rotating, the number of overall buttons Sony has to "cram" into the remaining space, and its decision of what direct access buttons to include vs. menu diving. The idea of losing, for example, the metering mode selection switch historically around the AEL button in order to accommodate a video button, on a still camera, is a bit depressing. It's a further indication of something that has been discussed in various forums, that how the inclusion of video in what are primarily still photography cameras, is hindering the development of, or interfering with the ability to make still cameras better for still photography.

As for those who think the future is in FF cameras, not APS-C, that is highly unlikely to ever occur. The cost of an APS-C sensor will always be far less than a FF sensor, even if the manufacturers develop a less expensive way to make FF sensors. Also, the trend in cameras generally is for smaller and lighter (e.g., micro 4/3, NEX, SLT, etc.), not bigger and heavier, which would include at least to some extent FF cameras. I personally have no love for small cameras, that are too small for my tastes (like NEX and the A33/55), but that is where the manufacturers (and presumably consumers) are taking the market.

I doubt the SS button moved up to the top, four of those should be ISO, WB, flash popup and LCD light. No idea what the other two are.

Edited by Serdar A - 14 July 2011 at 06:07