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Topic ClosedThe A77 thread (cont'd)

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sybersitizen View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2011 at 01:02
Originally posted by Raccoon Raccoon wrote:

A lot of people such as Sybersitizen will soon be eating humble pie for not recognizing the obvious real deal (as in finalized official design).

If it turns out that way, so be it. But one also has to wonder about the credibility of people joining the forum today just for the purpose of posting and defending the photo.
 



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Steve-S View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2011 at 01:17
Originally posted by SilhouPirou SilhouPirou wrote:

... I don't care for APS-C either, in-fact I'm surprised they are still making it. I see all manufacturers are filling out another niche now to fund the big daddy FF Lineup and lenses ...

To abuse Sam Clemens (yet again), "Rumors of the death of aps-c have been greatly exagerated."

We can be confident that aps-c is here for quite some time: FF sensors cost a LOT more to make. FF lenses are usually bigger and heavier (for a similar FOV) -- often by a large amount! Since the cost can't be pulled down far enough, the entry-level and step-up SLR (& Sony SLT) models will remain the domain of aps-c sensors for the foreseeable future.

And it's the (high-volume!!!) low/mid market where the profit is. Top-end stuff just doesn't sell in enough volume; even if the margin is dramatically higher with FF, the total profit per model of camera, over the lifetime of the model via the OEM, is dramatically lower.

With such a huge aps-c market, a series of step-ups culminating in a high-end / semi-pro aps-c model logically sits at the top of THAT heap, with FF models starting about there, and moving up-market (in terms of features/cost).

FWIW -- if any maker is poised to get rid of aps-c, it's Sony. Eliminating the mirror means the SLT models can be smaller and CHEAPER. I expect Sony to shock the FF market -- again! -- in 2012, and to bring out a FF model below $US1000 a generation or two after that...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2011 at 01:33
Originally posted by Falcon75 Falcon75 wrote:

It's a huge fake... just copy the image and zoom a bit on your pc...

You'll the noise around the letters and symbols area in rectangular shape... more visible on the grip...

the dial button is also "curved"...



It's a fake!


Actually, it's not curved at all. If you cover up the streaking artifact you'll see that's just an illusion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2011 at 01:39
Masters of the obvious - Dept chairman of redundancy dept.

I see all manufacturers are filling out another niche now to fund the big daddy FF Lineup and lenses ...And it's the (high-volume!!!) low/mid market where the profit is. Top-end stuff just doesn't sell in enough volume. Of course!

FWIW -- if any maker is poised to get rid of aps-c, it's Sony. Eliminating the mirror means the SLT models can be smaller and CHEAPER. I expect Sony to shock the FF market -- again! -- in 2012, and to bring out a FF model below $US1000 a generation or two after that...

All the above is what I implied with" Drop the crop and go Full Frame in this body now That would be a leap forward for sure!"

If we follow Moore's law about technology, which most Corp's and their new tech releases do- the break through is in line with what we are both saying. Now Sony simply has a shift to APS-c either for one or more reasons, fan following /current product support, or another incarnation/generation before the trickle down effect of bigger censors in the smaller bodies takes place. They can do it know. It's all about planned obsolescence, don't be fooled. Besides this goes hand in hand with the smaller lighter faster better cheaper mentality you refer too.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2011 at 01:39
It was a mistake subscribing to this thread.
I finished work and found about 35 emails from Dyxum on my phone
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Serdar A View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2011 at 01:41
Fake or not, the button placement and the overall shape matches that of the transparent model from the first post of the previous A77 thread.

I did not expect to see what looks like the teleconverter button (AKA invalid operation button) from my old A300, but if its main purpose on the A77 is to enable magnification (i.e. MF assist) in the VF, it actually deserves that spot.
 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2011 at 01:46
All in all the new A77 here shown is a clear Canon competitor. Video, big killer screen. In form and features bet your bippy it does. Nice Removable VG option. Even the Pared down?/ simpler controls of the A65 look good. Clean controls, nice Ergos all HD compatible with HD results for all the pixel peeps and their TVS. Satisfaction abounds.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2011 at 01:52
Originally posted by SilhouPirou SilhouPirou wrote:



FWIW -- if any maker is poised to get rid of aps-c, it's Sony. Eliminating the mirror means the SLT models can be smaller and CHEAPER. I expect Sony to shock the FF market -- again! -- in 2012, and to bring out a FF model below $US1000 a generation or two after that...

All the above is what I implied with" Drop the crop and go Full Frame in this body now That would be a leap forward for sure!"

If we follow Moore's law about technology, which most Corp's and their new tech releases do- the break through is in line with what we are both saying. Now Sony simply has a shift to APS-c either for one or more reasons, fan following /current product support, or another incarnation/generation before the trickle down effect of bigger censors in the smaller bodies takes place. They can do it know. It's all about planned obsolescence, don't be fooled. Besides this goes hand in hand with the smaller lighter faster better cheaper mentality you refer too.



Hmm. I guess I didn't state my main thesis clearly enough:

Sony can't -- YET -- abandon the aps-c market. FF costs are still FAR too high to bring a FF model out that's price-competitive with the aps-c entry levels. Sony "can" do it now, but it would lose them either market-share (if they weren't priced to compete) or money (they'd have to sell at a loss to compete on price). I expect that neither option is palatable to them!

And don't forget the sheer physics/optics that mean aps-c (DT,EF-S,DX) LENSES will be smaller and cheaper -- more or less "forever" -- which will give a price advantage to any system or "line" with aps-c sensors over FF sensors.

Last but not least, remember that "trickle down" will work both ways: as SLT and other technologies "trickle down" to the FF market, and FF bodies get cheaper... aps-c technologies will advance, and make THOSE bodies cheaper still. FF models may in fact NEVER become price-competitive with aps-c entry-level models (though I expect the time will come when low-end FF and high-end aps-c models (from the same maker) will be comparably-priced).


- Steve S.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2011 at 02:11
Originally posted by SilhouPirou SilhouPirou wrote:

I don't care for APS-C either, in-fact I'm surprised they are still making it.


I'm not at all surprised, upset or disappointed that APS-C is still viable. It hits a sweet spot price/performance-wise, and supports the market. Some people have grown accustomed and prefer APS-C and I don't intend to belittle that choice or the people who make it. It's just not for me. Just call me crusty and set in my ways(and in love with both my old and new glass).

I think it's great that people are excited about the new cameras, though I have to admit to having mixed feelings about what signals that sends to Sony about viewfinder options. Considering the whole a700 fiasco I'm not at all surprised that news of a successor looks like water in the desert to many people, and everyone is performing their own calculations as to the tradeoffs with this new camera(as with any other).

In the end though, people buying Alpha equipment makes it more likely that Sony will have the R&D money to forge ahead with things that DO interest me, so bring it on I say!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2011 at 02:45
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

Originally posted by Raccoon Raccoon wrote:

A lot of people such as Sybersitizen will soon be eating humble pie for not recognizing the obvious real deal (as in finalized official design).

If it turns out that way, so be it. But one also has to wonder about the credibility of people joining the forum today just for the purpose of posting and defending the photo.


The photos speak for themselves. They don't need my defending.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2011 at 02:54
I see little point in matching the APS-C sensors with legacy mounts once the FF sensors become economically viable. Yes, the APS-C lenses could be smaller and lighter but in reality they are not. The FF glass on the other hand, will not get any bigger. The FF primes can be(and have already been) made pretty compact (below the 100mm range).

I have faith that FF and the Alpha mount will still have a future together.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2011 at 05:34
Assuming the photos are real or anything close to an accurate representation of the new camera, I'm a bit surprised that only a couple of people have picked up on the "problem" that Sony is apparently moving more key functions to menu items from dedicated buttons or switches. There is no metering mode selection switch, or SS switch, which would both now appear to be menu items (bad in both cases). The "C" button also has been removed which eliminates a customizable button to access another feature that either should not require menu diving or at a minimum should have direct access (I use mine for focus mode - wide area, center only, or manual selection of AF sensor).

It would seem that the loss of these direct controls, or direct access buttons, is a result of the larger rear-LCD mechanism to allow the tilting/rotating, the number of overall buttons Sony has to "cram" into the remaining space, and its decision of what direct access buttons to include vs. menu diving. The idea of losing, for example, the metering mode selection switch historically around the AEL button in order to accommodate a video button, on a still camera, is a bit depressing. It's a further indication of something that has been discussed in various forums, that how the inclusion of video in what are primarily still photography cameras, is hindering the development of, or interfering with the ability to make still cameras better for still photography.

As for those who think the future is in FF cameras, not APS-C, that is highly unlikely to ever occur. The cost of an APS-C sensor will always be far less than a FF sensor, even if the manufacturers develop a less expensive way to make FF sensors. Also, the trend in cameras generally is for smaller and lighter (e.g., micro 4/3, NEX, SLT, etc.), not bigger and heavier, which would include at least to some extent FF cameras. I personally have no love for small cameras, that are too small for my tastes (like NEX and the A33/55), but that is where the manufacturers (and presumably consumers) are taking the market.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2011 at 05:43
Originally posted by vbpholaw vbpholaw wrote:

Assuming the photos are real or anything close to an accurate representation of the new camera, I'm a bit surprised that only a couple of people have picked up on the "problem" that Sony is apparently moving more key functions to menu items from dedicated buttons or switches. There is no metering mode selection switch, or SS switch, which would both now appear to be menu items (bad in both cases). The "C" button also has been removed which eliminates a customizable button to access another feature that either should not require menu diving or at a minimum should have direct access (I use mine for focus mode - wide area, center only, or manual selection of AF sensor).

It would seem that the loss of these direct controls, or direct access buttons, is a result of the larger rear-LCD mechanism to allow the tilting/rotating, the number of overall buttons Sony has to "cram" into the remaining space, and its decision of what direct access buttons to include vs. menu diving. The idea of losing, for example, the metering mode selection switch historically around the AEL button in order to accommodate a video button, on a still camera, is a bit depressing. It's a further indication of something that has been discussed in various forums, that how the inclusion of video in what are primarily still photography cameras, is hindering the development of, or interfering with the ability to make still cameras better for still photography.


If you look at the top edge, you can see several more controls up there; some of what you want may be there. Also, some of the existing buttons may (though I admit I doubt it!) be re-configurable, rather than dedicated to their labeled function...


- Steve S.
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Serdar A View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2011 at 06:04

I doubt the SS button moved up to the top, four of those should be ISO, WB, flash popup and LCD light. No idea what the other two are.

Edited by Serdar A - 14 July 2011 at 06:07
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