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this is a totally unedited photo

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Coast View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Coast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: this is a totally unedited photo
    Posted: 20 October 2016 at 23:52
How many totally unedited photos are there?
this photo is one of a series of photos I took at the time, one is recently posted in landscapes & seascapes
https://flic.kr/p/MU6TXR
I came to this one, it caught my eye and looked towards processing it as usual. I found I like it in its pristine original unprocessed condition.
the one below, totally unedited

So what do you think?
Is it fine as is, does it need processing, how would you post process it?
I must say I like my photos in as pristine condition as possible. In keeping w my main photography motto "Keep it simple stupid"

I liked the foreground trees as a dark silhouette for the early morning sunrise

Lake Tahoe Sunrise by Coast, on Flickr

Edited by Coast - 01 February 2017 at 07:16
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Fran View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2016 at 01:14
Hi, there is not such a thing as a "totally unedited" photo. What you call "totally unedited", is in fact, a photo edited with the set of post processing decisions that the engineers took when they designed the raw converting software inside the camera.
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Coast View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Coast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2016 at 01:21
Fran: Sorry I did not post process it
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LAbernethy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2016 at 01:21
I like a nice silhouette.   water and sky seem a little dull and the right frame seems a little heavy. I would suggest 10-20% crop off right and bottom and boost saturation 10%.

TFS
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Miranda F View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2016 at 09:37
Hmmm, ISWYM. Looking at the picture, I also wanted to crop it on the rhs - maybe to the centre of the tree, but I tried doing that and it doesn't work. I was also tempted to crop much more heavily to make the centre piece of water more obviously vignetted by the main trees, and to remove the sky just above the centre tree. But while this does work (to me!) it becomes a different picture than the one you took, and possibly not as good.

I would change the colours, though, as they look too insipid for me. I'm not normally one for overly vivid colours, but I've seen a lot of strong sunrise/sunset colours and this isn't enough for me.

On my copy of your picture, using the basic Sony PM, I 'improved' the picture (to my taste!) by the following changes to the tone curve:
1. Pull the RGB top corner to the left to maximise the brightness
2. pull the RGB slider down hard in the left middle to make the colours stronger and more moody
3. Lift the blue slider in the middle to make the lake bluer and darken the far shore slightly (to cut the haze without pushing it full black)
4. Lastly, pulled the saturation up 30-40% to bring out the colours.

I tend to do this myself in camera rather than in pp, altering the WB and exposure compensation to achieve a quite similar result. I do like the EVF on the A58! but I have found that the AWB often ruins moody sunset/sunrise pics and a little experimentation with manual WB and exposure is almost always worthwhile. And I take mostly jpegs, which means it is more difficult to pull things around afterward.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Aavo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2016 at 10:10
For me is novadays no totally unedited photos. Why?
1) I use e-mount zoom lenses, witch have incamera correction for JPEG, or if I shoot RAW, I need to do it in computer and then to convert from RAW.
2) Because of 24MP sensor I use fast primes as zoom lenses for better shots, so I crop, sometimes lot from 6000x4000 up to 3000x2000.
3) I do not like to use incamera level, o I correct levelling.
4) I like to correct perspective, if ther shooting axle is up or down, up to acceptable level, even making street photography from the very low level (near to pavement).
4) I use incamera sharpnness 0, contrast 0 and saturation 0, becasue I feel better when making corrections later.
5) Because of my right eye injury I need to make some corrections as I do not see correctly through EVF and when back LCD not helps (about half of year for now).

If the place and scene are great and I have time (actually always needed) I make more shots with different incamera options like Miranda F explained. So here, if I beging to select later, this is actually any way edeting too, anyway with sunset/sunrise pics. I think Sony has no good solutions for shooting sunset/sunrise just like that.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Winwalloe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2016 at 10:40
"Straight out of the camera" is a better designation than "totally unedited", as no JPEG is "unedited", for the reason explained by Fran. Therefore there's very many "totally unedited photos" out there. It's just that they are raw files and can't be viewed without a conversion.

Straight out of the camera JPEGs got better for Sony cameras in the recent years. However before that it was usually necessary to use the raw files to get a better version of the photo.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Aavo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2016 at 14:55
+1
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Post Options Post Options   Quote waldo_posth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2016 at 16:33
Hi Josef!
Here are my 2c: Silhouette images usually do not need much of postprocessing (or no PP at all). E.g., there are no shadows or lights to be recovered, quite the contrary: attempts at postprocessing in most cases never look as good as the unprocessed images, in my experience.

Just view them and enjoy!
All the best, Harald
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Coast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2016 at 23:11
Thank you for your comments, much wisdom there. I just wish more of the comments focused on the photo itself, the core of the thread, "Is it fine as is, does it need processing, how would you post process it?", and not the inarticulate way I framed it. I thought it would be self evident it was about my pp and didn't need "by me" inserted into the title.

Thanks Lee.

Miranda F. Much thought in your reply, thank you. I'm going to reply in the context of Place & Time.
Place - I took the photo in the middle of a forest and as such I'm hesitant to crop trees out of the pic, to be true to "Place"

Time - at the time, breaking of dawn, there just wasn't much color to be had. What you see in the photo, I believe is the accurate depiction of colors at the "Time"

I agree w you on jpeg, when I set my a6000 on RAW & JPEG the jpeg does look better, but it doesn't lend itself to pp, so thats a conundrum I have not solved.
If you'll notice on my EXIF, IPhoto isn't even listed and all settings are basically, standard or normal. I believe I only set ISO that was at 100. I was on tripod

BTW a tiny a6000 looks pretty ridiculous on a tall tripod

Aavo, thanks, "2) Because of 24MP sensor I use fast primes as zoom lenses for better shots, so I crop"
Thats exactly what I do w my a6000 and Rokinon f2 12mm. That lens is so sharp I seem to be able to crop almost to infinity.
In this thread I was implying I did no post processing to the photo. It was pleasing to me as is. infact the camera itself was on full auto except for the ISO setting
Thank you

Winwalloe. Yes I was inarticulate in wording the thread. I should have made it perfectly clear and inserted "BY ME". SORRY!

Harald, As always, thank you for your wise and refreshing words But most of all for your Great photos 👏
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2016 at 06:51
Hi, again, Coast.
Yes, I realise you wanted comments on PP, but I feel framing is part of that too. I also think your picture, which is almost but not quite a silhouette, does raise questions which I ask myself when taking pictures near dusk or dawn.

1) Do low-saturation pics work, or should they be either strongly coloured or full mono?

A: Yes, they can work. I often take scenic views with little colour in them, and often take both mono and colour images, and the views with just a little colour in them do work. But,


2) How important is colour to this picture? Is the scene essentially mono, with some colour added to make it less stark, or is it essentially a colour picture? Because IME mono and colour pics need different composition to work well.

A: I feel that without the colour element, scenes kind of have to obey the rules of mono. That is, they either need a sparse, almost geometric, quality to have impact in silhuoette, or else they need a strong textural quality, like sun/moonlight on waves, sand, etc.
Thus, I feel that if the picture had one tree, perhaps in vertical format, this would work as a mono picture, but as it is, the tree-line has a ragged non-geometric feel to it (to me) which doesn;t quite work as mono.
Ther is also the issue that the distant shore is not full black, and if it is made full black it muddles up the tree silhouette, so high-contrast mono doesn't really work for me here, and I feel colour is an imortant aspect of the picture.

3) If it is a colour picture, the 'rules' are much relaxed due to the extra visual interest gained, and the gredations of hue and saturation near the horizon as dawn and dusk are a good source. But how saturated do they need to be?

A: This must be a matter of personal preferance, and clearly there is room for both highly-saturated dawn/dusk images and more subtle ones. But I feel there isn't enough colour in this as presented to make this work, for me, hence my comments before.

Anyway, glad you shared this pic and asked for comments. I always enjoy this kind of critique as it definitely prompts the kind of questions I ask myself when trying to capture a view (often unsuccesfully).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2016 at 09:15
Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

On my copy of your picture, using the basic Sony PM, I 'improved' the picture (to my taste!) by the following changes to the tone curve:
1. Pull the RGB top corner to the left to maximise the brightness
2. pull the RGB slider down hard in the left middle to make the colours stronger and more moody
3. Lift the blue slider in the middle to make the lake bluer and darken the far shore slightly (to cut the haze without pushing it full black)
4. Lastly, pulled the saturation up 30-40% to bring out the colours.
Why would you ruin the atmosphere of this picture? You rightfully use the caveat "to my taste" because that what you describe will ruin the picture imho. There is (always) room to improve a picture, but this picture should be low contrast as it will convey a feeling.

Originally posted by waldo_posth waldo_posth wrote:

Just view them and enjoy!

Agree!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Coast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2016 at 01:16
Thanks addy landzaat; I always admire how you can get straight to the heart of the subject with the correct analysis.

Miranda F; thanks, but I think the discussion was getting a little complex.

Can a photo, that has Zero post processing, including crop, be a quality photograph?

So I took recommendations from above and I pp'd not the same photo but the one just prior to it. I said I took a series at the time. I believe I took over 500 total, including continuous fast frames during the week. The one above snapped at 6:04 am this one at 6:03. They should be similar to a point.

This photo I post processed

Lake Tahoe, Sunrise to Sunset Sept. 2016 by Coast, on Flickr

To me the non edited having been there is a more true, real depiction of the Time and Place

Edited by Coast - 01 February 2017 at 07:20
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LAbernethy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2016 at 01:46
Um.... Just on composition alone I like the second one better. The troika of points on the right balances better to the one. Colour is nicer too.
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