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Odd frame numbering issue - a99

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Post Options Post Options   Quote owenn01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Odd frame numbering issue - a99
    Posted: 27 September 2020 at 10:16
Hi all,

I've just been looking through my most recent images taken a couple of weeks ago whilst on vacation and on importing to LR I noticed the order of the images was, to out it mildly, 'All over the show'.

I thought it was an issue with LR but, on closer inspection, it appears it is 'correct' in how it is importing the files but the file numbers themselves seem all over the place and not in the 'correct' order.

HAs anyone seen this before? I have been having some odd issues with the card (it's becoming difficult reinserting it into the card slot, though another card is fine) or is it a problem with the software on the camera itself?

Any thoughts etc. most welcome as it's rather confusing to see this in action!

Thanks and best regards, Neil.
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pegelli View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pegelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2020 at 10:40
That's disturbing Neil.

One way to solve this in lightroom is to sort by capture time (instead of by name), do the files appear in the right order then?

How have you set your file numbering, "series" or "reset"?

Can it be your numbers hit 9999 and then reset to 0001 and started a new folder? (this happens automatically)


If it's just one card giving the problem I would throw it away and get a new one, too much chance of even bigger mishaps (losing files) if there's anything wrong with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote owenn01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2020 at 11:02
Hi Pieter,

No - it's not a 'reset' issue (experienced many of those over the years!); the latest went from an 02xxx to an 06xxx number. Importing into LR should be set to ascending number order (I will go and check!) but this seems random as well - the latest series starts towards the end of the day, goes through to the close of the day then restarts from the morning images! The images in the folder are in the 'correct' time stamp order so I'm not sure what is happening here.... And yes; I think a discarding of the card is called for; it's been through a lot of images (being the card I had when I purchased the camera!).

Thanks for the reply and best regards, Neil.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2020 at 11:25
I do not use Lightroom. but the order "in the folder" (I assume in File Explorer) has nothing to do with the order in a program like Lightroom. These are just settings.

What you describe sounds weird. How are the name files? When you say 02xxx you mean DSC02xxx?
Do you use two cards? Or just one? did you try the other card slot?
How is your camera set? Series or Reset? What is the set time on your camera?

Those were the questions I thought about when I saw your problem. But if another cards means no problems, just get another card. Those are not that expensive
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pegelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2020 at 12:12
Neil, you can also set Lightroom to sort by capture time. That would save you renaming all the files.

It's in the library view, the bar just above the film strip at the bottom. If you don't see it click on the little triangle at the right and make sure "sorting" is selected.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hezu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2020 at 14:10
Originally posted by owenn01 owenn01 wrote:

No - it's not a 'reset' issue (experienced many of those over the years!); the latest went from an 02xxx to an 06xxx number.
I recall that with some camera(s), this sort of jump forward could be archived by inserting a card that has some existing photo files and their numbers being higher than what was last shot.
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jozioau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2020 at 14:18
Maybe a dumb question, but has the card been re-formatted using the in-camera menu?
That will erase all traces of old image files and re-set everything.
If after re-formatting, the image counters of photos taken are still all over the shop, bin it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dopol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2020 at 14:49
I think it has to do with what Hezu assumes.
The camera looks at the card, finds a highest shot number, and number up from that point on. I had this in the past. I remember it wasn't very logical, because it didn't happen all the time.
So I would go with the dumb question of Joe: format the card in the camera and try again and bin it in case the problem remains.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote owenn01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2020 at 17:03
Thanks all - I'm of the view to 'bin it' as so effectively described by Joe. It's had numerous reformats in camera (each time it's used in fact) and, with the problems of getting it to fit into the card slot (which doesn't occur with other cards I have) then I think it's time for it to go to that happy photographic site in the sky (no; not Flickr....).

best regards, Neil.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote overeema Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2020 at 17:03
Originally posted by Hezu Hezu wrote:

Originally posted by owenn01 owenn01 wrote:

No - it's not a 'reset' issue (experienced many of those over the years!); the latest went from an 02xxx to an 06xxx number.
I recall that with some camera(s), this sort of jump forward could be archived by inserting a card that has some existing photo files and their numbers being higher than what was last shot.

This indeed is how the Alpha software is designed (I remember from a course back in 2008). The recommendation is when you insert another card, to always change to a new folder. The camera starts counting from the highest number in the current folder. If that folder is empty it continues from the last shutter release. The foldername xxxMSDCF has a 3-digit number in it, starting from 100. So in total you can have 7 digit unique identifiers before the camera wraps around.
When you use the same card alternatingly in multiple bodies, you can still have duplicate names in LR. Nikon seems to have a solution for that: it allows you to change DSC0 in the picturename DSC0xxxx into a unique camerabody identifier.
I do these renames manually in postprocessing with a bulk rename utility. After each wrap around I change DSC0 into DSC1, DSC2, DSC3, etc en for my NEX body i use NEX0, NEX1, etc
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Post Options Post Options   Quote owenn01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2020 at 17:23
Thanks everyone for the advice - I have just purchased a replacement card (so cheap now - even for one with a better spec. than the one I seem to be having problems with. I will return to this post should this not fix the problem!

Best regards, Neil.
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amrep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote amrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2020 at 18:40
If pictures are deleted in camera the unoccupied numbers from deleted pictures may be reused causing numbers and created time to be "out of sync".
I don't know if this is relevant to your issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hezu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2020 at 19:27
Originally posted by overeema overeema wrote:

This indeed is how the Alpha software is designed (I remember from a course back in 2008). The recommendation is when you insert another card, to always change to a new folder. The camera starts counting from the highest number in the current folder. If that folder is empty it continues from the last shutter release. The foldername xxxMSDCF has a 3-digit number in it, starting from 100. So in total you can have 7 digit unique identifiers before the camera wraps around.
When you use the same card alternatingly in multiple bodies, you can still have duplicate names in LR. Nikon seems to have a solution for that: it allows you to change DSC0 in the picturename DSC0xxxx into a unique camerabody identifier.
I do these renames manually in postprocessing with a bulk rename utility. After each wrap around I change DSC0 into DSC1, DSC2, DSC3, etc en for my NEX body i use NEX0, NEX1, etc
The newer Sony cameras (ok, from the A-mount lineup, only α99 II is new enough) do offer this option to change the filename prefix. And personally one of the first things I do with any new camera is to set the folder name format to be date-based, that makes it fairly easy to collect each days' photos into single directory. The only caveat there is that you have to note that the first three characters of the folder names on a memory card are sequential numbers rather than the actual first three numbers of the current year, but such replacement operation is fairly trivial. And of course, the filenames may still conflict if your cameras do not offer that prefix editing option. And of course, there can be filename conflict also if you manage to shoot more than 9999 shots on a single day, but I think that is fairly tough task and most people probably won't take that many pictures on one day.
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