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30fps - use case?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 30fps - use case?
    Posted: 17 February 2021 at 11:41
Entropy512 who is a user here and on other forums has analyzed some of the E-mount stuff:

And I know Jim has measured a 120 or 240 Hz electrical current consumption pattern from the A9. I forget what the current consumption pattern was on other bodies he measured. I don't believe he's measured an A7M3?

Side note: The E-mount lens command and control loop operates at 60 Hz, but newer lenses/bodies support a new asynchronous command set that is not tied to the 60 Hz BODY_VD_LENS pulse rate. I've seen these new commands on the SEL24105G and A7M3 - someone else guessed this command set is related to native 20 FPS capability (vs. lenses that only do native 15). Whether this is actually the case is TBD.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2021 at 11:31
Originally posted by gigo gigo wrote:

There is a clear relationship between the release year and fps.
It seems that all the lenses released in the future can be expected to be 30 fps.

And 30fps to the kit lens, can we expect that all the bodies will be 30fps someday?

Yep. just updates to E-mount to support the A9 in 2017.

Sony made a similar change to A-mount in 2011 to support 12 FPS of the A77. The A-mount lenses since then support 10 FPS on LA-EA3/5.    The older SAM/SSM lenses support 8 FPS. The one exception is the DT 18-55 SAM II.

Third-party stuff on both platforms don't have these updates. My Tamron SP 85mm F1.8 USD is one of the last A-mount AF lenses, but it uses pre-A77 tech.

E-mount bodies can shoot video at 120 (maybe 240) FPS. 30 FPS is just the current stills limit.
Sony A7RIV NEX-5T HVL-F45RM LA-EA3 LA-EA4r MB-IV MC-11 EF-E II TLT ROKR MD-NEX KR-NEX DA-NEX
Minolta Maxxum 600si
Pentax Q7 5-15 15-45/2.8 8.5/1.9 11.5/9 AF-P/Q
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gigo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2021 at 07:35
I sold 3 bodies and 22 lenses to buy the ILCE-1. There was a huge space in my auto-drys, and I still had a lot of money to buy ILCE-1.
There is one thing to do. I was looking at the list of lenses.
Then I noticed something.

Year fps lens

2013 15 35F28Z
2013 15 55F18Z
2013 15 2870
2014 15 1635Z
2014 15 2470Z
2014 15 P28135G
2014 15 70200G
2015 15 28F20
2015 15 35F14Z
2015 15 90M28G
2015 15 24240
2016 15 70300G

2016 20 50F14Z
2016 20 50F18F
2016 20 50M28
2016 20 85F14GM

2016 30 2470GM
2017 30 85F18
2017 30 100F28GM
2017 30 1224G
2017 30 1635GM
2017 30 24105G
2017 30 70200GM
2017 30 100400GM
2018 30 24F14GM
2018 30 400F28GM
2019 30 35F18F
2019 30 135F18GM
2019 30 600F40GM
2019 30 200600G
2020 30 20F18G
2020 30 1224GM
2021 30 35F14GM
2021 30 2860

There is a clear relationship between the release year and fps.
It seems that all the lenses released in the future can be expected to be 30 fps.

And 30fps to the kit lens, can we expect that all the bodies will be 30fps someday?

Edited by gigo - 17 February 2021 at 07:39
ILCE-1, FE:24/35/STF/135/10400GM, 90M/24105/200600G+6, 1.4x/2xTC
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2021 at 20:11
Surely high-definition video capability is going to squeeze out rapid still shooting as decent phone cameras squeezed out mass consumer cameras?
Video can already exceed the pixel count considered satisfactory by an older generation of DSLR shooters - maybe there is an actual use case for 30fps stills which cannot currently be met by video, but I can't see that staying for long.

I also see the trade-off between frame rate and resolution becoming unimportant when software becomes available that allows you to pick your own point in that trade-off before or after shooting, rather in the way that some video can be interlaced.
Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A7Rii, A58, Nex-6, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras ...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Howard_S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2021 at 13:34
Originally posted by dCap dCap wrote:

Think I'm gonna continue to shoot in single frame advance.
You might like the RD-175 - that manages one frame every 2-3 secs.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2021 at 12:14
Think I'm gonna continue to shoot in single frame advance.
Walk out if it doesn't feel right
I can tell you're only lying
If you've got something better tonight
Then don't mess up my mind with your crying
Just Walk Out In The Rain
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Howard_S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2021 at 11:25
Originally posted by gigo gigo wrote:

Originally posted by dCap dCap wrote:

But ... just 20fps would, maybe, be plenty, right?

A second isn't very a long time. Perhaps 5fps is plenty?



I had a Fujifilm DS330. It was 5 fps with 1.3 million pixels, but with an external unit, it was possible to shoot continuously at 15 fps, which was epoch-making at that time.
I bragged about the results to justify expensive shopping, but I was told, "Isn't there between this frame and this frame? It's useless."

As another example, humans are said to operate with a clock of about 24-30Hz. According to the sampling theorem, 60fps is required to reliably capture the phenomenon of 30Hz.

Therefore, 30 fps is not enough.

But if I can get 120p at 4k with the A1 (which the specs say I can), would I not be able to extract individual 8.3 MP frames for that extra-sensory digital decisive moment?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gigo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2021 at 11:06
Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

Anyway, some nice pics except for the horrific bokeh behind the horses! Which lens was that? A Mirror?

The bokeh is not the responsibility of the 70300G. I'm responsible for my lack of consideration of panning settings.
ILCE-1, FE:24/35/STF/135/10400GM, 90M/24105/200600G+6, 1.4x/2xTC
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gigo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2021 at 11:01
Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

Originally posted by gigo gigo wrote:

Originally posted by dCap dCap wrote:

... because you want to shoot 30fps with a 50mm (for what subject?)

The kids. When my kids were toddlers, there was no camera that could shoot bursts.

... except an 8mm cine camera. Very short bursts before the film ran out, ISTR!

I heard that there were still people who knew antiques such as 8mm film movies.
I am also the generation who cut and pasted 8mm film with actual scissors and tape and edited it.
8mm, which you have forgotten, is a standard of 15fps and the shutter speed is 1/30, so you can't capture detailed facial expressions.
ILCE-1, FE:24/35/STF/135/10400GM, 90M/24105/200600G+6, 1.4x/2xTC
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gigo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2021 at 10:54
Originally posted by dCap dCap wrote:

But ... just 20fps would, maybe, be plenty, right?

A second isn't very a long time. Perhaps 5fps is plenty?



I had a Fujifilm DS330. It was 5 fps with 1.3 million pixels, but with an external unit, it was possible to shoot continuously at 15 fps, which was epoch-making at that time.
I bragged about the results to justify expensive shopping, but I was told, "Isn't there between this frame and this frame? It's useless."

As another example, humans are said to operate with a clock of about 24-30Hz. According to the sampling theorem, 60fps is required to reliably capture the phenomenon of 30Hz.

Therefore, 30 fps is not enough.

ILCE-1, FE:24/35/STF/135/10400GM, 90M/24105/200600G+6, 1.4x/2xTC
ILCE-QX1, Full Sprctrum NEX-5R, E:2
LA-EA5, A:35G/100S/200M/500R,3x-1x +7
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2021 at 20:51
Originally posted by gigo gigo wrote:

Originally posted by dCap dCap wrote:

... because you want to shoot 30fps with a 50mm (for what subject?)

The kids. When my kids were toddlers, there was no camera that could shoot bursts.

... except an 8mm cine camera. Very short bursts before the film ran out, ISTR!
Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A7Rii, A58, Nex-6, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras ...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2021 at 20:48
Originally posted by gigo gigo wrote:

Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

Originally posted by gigo gigo wrote:

https://farm66.static.flickr.com/65535/48317284096_e916e0f1e4_b.jpg

Can't see an image or a link here unless I delete the '[IMG]'. Though to be fair my work PC disables these links anyway ...

This is because flickr's load distribution mechanism is not working well.
https://farm66.static.flickr.com/
Try replacing this with a flickr server name that you can access in your environment.
For example,
https://farm ??.static.flickr.com/
?? = 66..67 ..68 ..

Thanks. I can see the pics just fine from home. Probably serves me right for trying to do it in my lunch half-hour
Anyway, some nice pics except for the horrific bokeh behind the horses! Which lens was that? A Mirror?
Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A7Rii, A58, Nex-6, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras ...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2021 at 17:20
Originally posted by gigo gigo wrote:

Originally posted by dCap dCap wrote:

... because you want to shoot 30fps with a 50mm (for what subject?)

The kids. When my kids were toddlers, there was no camera that could shoot bursts.
I would be very disappointed if the rapidly changing facial expressions were captured as the best one.
There is no sample. Even if there is, it is certain that the publication permission will not be given.
Well, it's definitely not 50mm, it can be 35mm or 85mm.

But ... just 20fps would, maybe, be plenty, right?

A second isn't very a long time. Perhaps 5fps is plenty?

Some good wildlife and Sports examples - wonder if it comes with 30 assistants to help you go through the new edit process. Maybe it is time for a decent bit of software to recognize and get the 20-30-60-100 near identical frames into one little movie clip you can scrub through and then auto-delete the 99 redundant frames (or keep the 4-5 frames for a decent sequence).
Walk out if it doesn't feel right
I can tell you're only lying
If you've got something better tonight
Then don't mess up my mind with your crying
Just Walk Out In The Rain
Eric Clapton, 1978
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gigo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2021 at 16:26
Originally posted by dCap dCap wrote:

... because you want to shoot 30fps with a 50mm (for what subject?)

The kids. When my kids were toddlers, there was no camera that could shoot bursts.
I would be very disappointed if the rapidly changing facial expressions were captured as the best one.
There is no sample. Even if there is, it is certain that the publication permission will not be given.
Well, it's definitely not 50mm, it can be 35mm or 85mm.
ILCE-1, FE:24/35/STF/135/10400GM, 90M/24105/200600G+6, 1.4x/2xTC
ILCE-QX1, Full Sprctrum NEX-5R, E:2
LA-EA5, A:35G/100S/200M/500R,3x-1x +7
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