FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Sony A800 and A1000

Page  <1 678
Author
pthomaslambert View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: 27 July 2009
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Posts: 7
Post Options Post Options   Quote pthomaslambert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2009 at 15:31
Originally posted by AlexKarasev AlexKarasev wrote:

I would like Alpha 09, '09 being the year of release. :-)

But it's far too soon to replace the A900. I think it's got at least 2 years more in it until an upgrade is issued. There's nothing wrong with it at all, with the possible exception of the main-sensor LV, and even that is not a big deal to most and even a plus for some.

With A900, SONY has paid their dues to the purists of the SLR craft. The next pro model, I'd like to be an unapologetic professional tool as good as can be made, to come with:

* 3 user-interchangeable viewfinders
- A 105% (100% frame marks) high magnification glass one would come with the camera - a further refined version of what's on A900; it should have a very sensitive hand-calibrated level.
- A pentamirror one, with flash and LV;
- A very high magnification vertical one (not a pentaprism - just a high power loupe looking straight at the focusing screen).

* 3 user-interchangeable full-frame sensors (user-accessible, w removable low pass filter - see below):
- A 16-18MP CMOS one, tuned for high ISO performance (default)
- A 40MP CCD one, with ISO 25 ... 800, native ISO 25
- A pure B&W sensor - no microfilters, no IR cutoff. 20MP. Implemented using whatever technology reaches farther into IR spectrum. It obviously won't need a low-pass filter; a visible light cutoff filter could be installed in its stead for IR work.

* Would like to see 16 bit Analog-digital converters and 16 bit RAW format, at least to support in-camera HDR

* Ability to save full-res raw and reduced-res JPG (optionally each sent to a different card). Extrafine JPG option (no color subsampling; almost no compression). HD Photo format besides Jpeg and raw.

* Integrated vertical grip, if not for any other reason but to accommodate the 4" 1024x682 display.

* Other contemporary trimmings like main-sensor LV, CFast CompactFlash interface, metering/SSS/exif support for non-chip user-defined instruments like telescopes and microscopes and adapted lenses, built-in GPS and 802.11n; USB3 connectivity. Intro pricing below $4K

--Alex Karasev

Alex,
If you want all of this, then invest in a Hasselblad HP30.
I have one and really do not see the point of having these options on a SONY 35mm based DSLR.


 



Back to Top
AlexKarasev View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 27 March 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Posts: 874
Post Options Post Options   Quote AlexKarasev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2009 at 20:57
Thomas,

I wasn't actually aware of any pure b&w/IR full frame digital backs for the Hassy. ???

I could (and still sometimes do) use b&w / ir on my Pentax 67II (film) based system, so i appreciate the medium format sensibility. However, let's be frank, optical options, mobility, and flexibility are severely restricted on mf compared to 35mm. And let's not forget about the cost.

This is why i said what i said. 2-3 yrs ago, if i posted some 24mp images on pro photo forums and said i wish i wanted that in a $2700 camera, how many people would ridicule that?

How many?

That's my point. Don't wish for 3-4 yr old design cameras done better - wish for something that will stand out favorably in the competitive mkt 3 yrs from now.

Edited by AlexKarasev - 28 July 2009 at 21:04
Back to Top
vbpholaw View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 12 March 2007
Country: United States
Location: DC Metro Area
Status: Offline
Posts: 2260
Post Options Post Options   Quote vbpholaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2009 at 22:20
Originally posted by AlexKarasev AlexKarasev wrote:

Originally posted by vbpholaw vbpholaw wrote:



Dream on. I assume you're not serious about all of the above.


I am dead-serious about wanting all of these in the next pro Alpha camera and paying $4K for the basic kit (1 viewfinder, 1 sensor). I'm likely to pay another $3K over time for the other accessory finders and sensors, especially if SONY hints at supporting the system with future sensors.


Well, in that case it really doesn't show much understanding of integrated camera operations. For example, the processing pipeline is based on the imaging sensor characteristics. Having multiple sensors, of different types (assuming of course there was a cost-effective and reliable (quality control, performance, alignment, durability, etc.) way to allow them to be user interchangeable - which is doubtful) would require multiple processing pipelines in the "base" camera, or are you assuming that you also would be changing the camera's internal computer along with the sensor to install the dedicated processing pipeline?

That's just one example. While a bit of what you would like is fine, at least in isolation, when combined into the idea of a modular camera priced at $4K or less your "wish list" is totally unrealistic.
Back to Top
badjak View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 03 December 2008
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Posts: 298
Post Options Post Options   Quote badjak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2009 at 22:24
Originally posted by vbpholaw vbpholaw wrote:

Originally posted by AlexKarasev AlexKarasev wrote:

Originally posted by vbpholaw vbpholaw wrote:



Dream on. I assume you're not serious about all of the above.


I am dead-serious about wanting all of these in the next pro Alpha camera and paying $4K for the basic kit (1 viewfinder, 1 sensor). I'm likely to pay another $3K over time for the other accessory finders and sensors, especially if SONY hints at supporting the system with future sensors.


Well, in that case it really doesn't show much understanding of integrated camera operations. For example, the processing pipeline is based on the imaging sensor characteristics. Having multiple sensors, of different types (assuming of course there was a cost-effective and reliable (quality control, performance, alignment, durability, etc.) way to allow them to be user interchangeable - which is doubtful) would require multiple processing pipelines in the "base" camera, or are you assuming that you also would be changing the camera's internal computer along with the sensor to install the dedicated processing pipeline?

That's just one example. While a bit of what you would like is fine, at least in isolation, when combined into the idea of a modular camera priced at $4K or less your "wish list" is totally unrealistic.


not so fast,
you should check out what RED has been up to lately. ok they have no optical viewfinder what makes it easier to create a modular system, but hey, they show a truly modular camera system. it CAN be done :-)
Back to Top
Göran Larsson View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 08 January 2006
Country: Sweden
Location: Linköping
Status: Offline
Posts: 625
Post Options Post Options   Quote Göran Larsson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2009 at 22:42
Originally posted by badjak badjak wrote:

not so fast,
you should check out what RED has been up to lately. ok they have no optical viewfinder what makes it easier to create a modular system, but hey, they show a truly modular camera system. it CAN be done :-)

If it can be done, then where can I buy a RED system, with that feature set, for under $4k?
Back to Top
vbpholaw View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 12 March 2007
Country: United States
Location: DC Metro Area
Status: Offline
Posts: 2260
Post Options Post Options   Quote vbpholaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2009 at 22:43
Originally posted by badjak badjak wrote:

Originally posted by vbpholaw vbpholaw wrote:

Originally posted by AlexKarasev AlexKarasev wrote:

Originally posted by vbpholaw vbpholaw wrote:



Dream on. I assume you're not serious about all of the above.


I am dead-serious about wanting all of these in the next pro Alpha camera and paying $4K for the basic kit (1 viewfinder, 1 sensor). I'm likely to pay another $3K over time for the other accessory finders and sensors, especially if SONY hints at supporting the system with future sensors.


Well, in that case it really doesn't show much understanding of integrated camera operations. For example, the processing pipeline is based on the imaging sensor characteristics. Having multiple sensors, of different types (assuming of course there was a cost-effective and reliable (quality control, performance, alignment, durability, etc.) way to allow them to be user interchangeable - which is doubtful) would require multiple processing pipelines in the "base" camera, or are you assuming that you also would be changing the camera's internal computer along with the sensor to install the dedicated processing pipeline?

That's just one example. While a bit of what you would like is fine, at least in isolation, when combined into the idea of a modular camera priced at $4K or less your "wish list" is totally unrealistic.


not so fast,
you should check out what RED has been up to lately. ok they have no optical viewfinder what makes it easier to create a modular system, but hey, they show a truly modular camera system. it CAN be done :-)


Yes, but at what size and price? Remember, he suggested a "base" fully integrated camera at $4K, and not something close to the size of the RED (which will not be small when integrated with its various components to make a "complete" camera).
 



Back to Top
badjak View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 03 December 2008
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Posts: 298
Post Options Post Options   Quote badjak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2009 at 23:42
Originally posted by vbpholaw vbpholaw wrote:

Originally posted by badjak badjak wrote:

Originally posted by vbpholaw vbpholaw wrote:

Originally posted by AlexKarasev AlexKarasev wrote:

Originally posted by vbpholaw vbpholaw wrote:



Dream on. I assume you're not serious about all of the above.


I am dead-serious about wanting all of these in the next pro Alpha camera and paying $4K for the basic kit (1 viewfinder, 1 sensor). I'm likely to pay another $3K over time for the other accessory finders and sensors, especially if SONY hints at supporting the system with future sensors.


Well, in that case it really doesn't show much understanding of integrated camera operations. For example, the processing pipeline is based on the imaging sensor characteristics. Having multiple sensors, of different types (assuming of course there was a cost-effective and reliable (quality control, performance, alignment, durability, etc.) way to allow them to be user interchangeable - which is doubtful) would require multiple processing pipelines in the "base" camera, or are you assuming that you also would be changing the camera's internal computer along with the sensor to install the dedicated processing pipeline?

That's just one example. While a bit of what you would like is fine, at least in isolation, when combined into the idea of a modular camera priced at $4K or less your "wish list" is totally unrealistic.


not so fast,
you should check out what RED has been up to lately. ok they have no optical viewfinder what makes it easier to create a modular system, but hey, they show a truly modular camera system. it CAN be done :-)


Yes, but at what size and price? Remember, he suggested a "base" fully integrated camera at $4K, and not something close to the size of the RED (which will not be small when integrated with its various components to make a "complete" camera).

if you want small size, go get yourself a leica and get out of here

no seriously, i was merely talking about the technical part of the deal, offcourse i dont think it will be under 4 k, that would be ridiculous, their sensor backs alone will cost more than that. and yes it will NOT be unobtrusive ( it seems they have a strange obsession with motorbike engine design and heatsinks ) but i didnt read that on the 'preffered specs' list? and no i wont read between the lines.

i DO however think, it has potential to become a player in the sports photography business, if they manage to get autofocus right that is.
and heck, if they launch it under 10k (euros ) it will be scaring the shit out of canikonony

Edited by badjak - 28 July 2009 at 23:44
Back to Top
AlexKarasev View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 27 March 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Posts: 874
Post Options Post Options   Quote AlexKarasev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 00:35
Much of the expense of the RED (thanks for an excellent example) comes from the fact that they are a new and very small, compared to SONY, company. I just got a quote for CNC manufacturing a particular kind of an adapter for the SONY mount. I was quoted $340. If SONY made this same part (based on pricing of their similar spare parts), the cost to them would be perhaps $3.40. The point about RED is that it shows what's possible when one doesn't cling to present camera designs that were done years ago.

One can listen all day for the reasons why something along the lines of what I described couldn't / shouldn't be done if one is into that sort of thing. Behind every corporate decision not to innovate, to protect the status quo, etc., there's meetings and focus groups and consultants with this sort of talk, always very impressive and argumentative. SONY had its share of those, including squandering their Walkman and Trinitron advantages when facing disruptive technology such as MP3 and the flat panel innovations from Korea. But if Bluray is any indication, they are willing to play creatively and to change the way the new video format is introduced (via a gaming platform, at a loss initially).

Almost fortunately, SONY Alpha division does not have a status quo they are satisfied with and want to merely protect - they want a bigger market share; they want to take it from Canon and Nikon. It forces them to not just react well to disruptive technology, but to be the ones introducing it.

I am a photographer, having never used my EE degree properly, so I expressed my wishes in a way that make sense to photographers not engineers. I'd leave it to SONY to invent the unified camera bus or whatever, and to their marketing dept to give it a fine name.

I've even left some features out from my initial post, namely, further reinforcing the SONY trait of putting more value-add features in the body that works with all lenses.
...Such as a few degrees sensor tilt for DOF control (the whole SSS assembly tilts) on one axis, and the lens mount tilt on a perpendicular axis.
...Also implementing the Maxxum 7's STF mode, only for a single exposure (assuming the shutter speed is below camera X-sync and the aperture is not wide open) by simply moving the aperture blades during the exposure.

If introduced in 2011 at $3999, such a system, I think, could be considered as disruptive technology on the market. I.e. it would allow images that are not merely better than the competitors by some marginal and disputable percentage and in some specific conditions, but rather simply impossible to obtain with Canon and Nikon (or in the case of tilt, requiring their specialist lenses). SONY has always thought of itself as an aspiration brand and as such they need an awesome camera far and away better than the second best one, but still priced well for what it delivers (no Bang Olufsen / Leica pricing). Trying to just make an "almost-Nikon/almost-Canon for less money" won't get them into the position they ought to be in - insisting on this course would be, like Gagarin had once put it, "not a ride, just squirming by"

--Alex Karasev

Edited by AlexKarasev - 29 July 2009 at 01:07
Back to Top
badjak View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 03 December 2008
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Posts: 298
Post Options Post Options   Quote badjak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 00:52
oh! i forgot one, sinar m. its an old one, but less clunky (still a beast though), and modular. consists of a normal dslr grip with the shutter assembly, 2 different mirror housings (one MF, one 35mm), different prisms, different backs, an optional vertical grip. and quality lenses. it is OLD though, and i have yet to find any fps specs..
Back to Top
Sick View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 15 July 2009
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Posts: 1200
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 02:20
cmon, how should a interchangeable sensor work?

This destroy any idea of perfect align of elements.
What if you put in the "module" a half mm wrong? -> bad image quality or viewfinder or AF no more working right....

Then there is a good risk of scratching it when changing or storing.
Well that is great for the company as you buy a new one every time.
But bad when you finally decide to go back to other company with "classic" design.
Sometimes there are just reasons why things haven't changed over decades!

And for 16bit (per channel) color images is no market.
people (even pro photographers) will complain that their PC does handle them very very very slow.
Cause most don't know hardware specs and what is the magic behind them.
Also Software that does handle 48 bit is rare and expansive.
24bit to 48bit is a rea huge step and everyone liking the idea, might needs some more lecture about.
Back to Top
AlexKarasev View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 27 March 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Posts: 874
Post Options Post Options   Quote AlexKarasev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 02:49
@ Sick:

This is tongue-in-cheek, right?

Edited by AlexKarasev - 29 July 2009 at 03:37
Back to Top
brettania View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Dyxum factotum

Joined: 17 July 2005
Country: New Zealand
Location: Auckland
Status: Offline
Posts: 20650
Post Options Post Options   Quote brettania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 03:15
Can't you people edit down the quotes?


Note: if you are responding to an earlier poster you can do it by starting with @ nameofposter.

Edited by brettania - 29 July 2009 at 03:16
Back to Top
Dyxum main page >  Forum Home > Equipment forums > Camera Talk Page  <1 678

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.

Monitor calibration strip

Dyxum.com - Home of the alpha system photographer

In memory of Cameron Hill - brettania

Feel free to contact us if needed.