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What is the "black frame"?

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nemesys View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nemesys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What is the "black frame"?
    Posted: 30 October 2006 at 22:07
Maybe a stupid question, but I've read many references to the almost infamous "black frame" and even though I did search the forums, I still have to read a detailed description of this problem. I'm asking because my refurbished 7D bought off eBay in September 2006 is exhibiting a strange behavior from time to time. It might have happened a dozen times so far. Basically, I turn on the camera, everything seems OK, I take a picture and the CF activity light comes on and stays on for longer than usual and then the camera seems to die, e.g. nothing works anymore. I have to turn it off and back on. When I go check the picture that was taken, it is always under-exposed.

Is this the "black frame" syndrome?

-Laurent.
A700, 7D, 530si RZ, Tamron 17-50 f/2.8, KM 18-70 f/3.5-5.6, KM 50 f/1.7, KM 75-300 f/4.5-5.6, Sigma 70-210 f/2.8
 



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dCap View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 October 2006 at 22:19
first black frame syndrome.

1 - Turn camera on - normally after not having used the camera for about a day
2 - compose, shoot first frame, camera freezes = screen goes black, nothing happens, can't use the camera to do anything.

The fix:
turn off, turn on again ... carry on using the camera as normal. It really is fine all day long after that. The first frame you shot there is on the card, a black image.

It was first reported on the 5D. Straight out of the box the camera had this issue.

The 7D ... it appears to have developed after some use.

A refurb camera may well have already had this fixed. The fix is a replacement shutter.

PS - sounds like what you have, but we don't get 'under-exposed' we get nothing. Well, you do get a recorded BLACK FRAME.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeditim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2006 at 16:04
I have had this issue from time to time and was going to get it repaired but for $300 just for this small issue I decided against it. I just hope it doesn't get worse over time...the last time (three weeks ago) it took three start restarts fot it to work...since then I have not had the problem.

Is there a known fix?
Tim
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeditim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2006 at 16:11
Please disregard...I should known better and read the rest of the messages before posting this.
Tim
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Post Options Post Options   Quote BasK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2006 at 19:18
My 7D had it three times now (and was sent in for repair). Once I hed the impression of a very underexposed shot, but the other two were definately black.
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gian View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2006 at 19:30
Originally posted by DcapVividOptic DcapVividOptic wrote:

PS - sounds like what you have, but we don't get 'under-exposed' we get nothing. Well, you do get a recorded BLACK FRAME


I have this problem too, and I don't get a black frame but a nicely underexposed cyanotype (bluish) picture (in AWB).

so... welcome to the FIRST FRAME? BLACK OUT! club. Sorry.

Edited by gian - 01 November 2006 at 19:31
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ldk62 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ldk62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2006 at 19:56
I had same "underxposed" first picture. Send for repair.
Shutter changed. Now it is fine.

Laco
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finnt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote finnt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2006 at 21:58
When my 7D had that problem, it recorded a "blue frame" sometimes.

Finn
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Post Options Post Options   Quote doppiaemme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2006 at 23:07
Hi guys!

I'm just joined the "Black frame society" :-(
I will send my 7D to repair service, I'm still underd warranty.

What I'm asking is:
If they can repair the problem (someone said it is a shutter's issue), will they use a new shutter model?
I mean, after K-M realized there was a project error which involved so many cameras, did they produce a re-engineered shutter?? Or they are just changing the broken shutter with another of the same type, which maybe is prone to the same matter in the future?

The last question is:
If they can't repair the camera and give refund, how much is that refund? Is there someone who knows?

thanks,

Massimo

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Post Options Post Options   Quote dktrident Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2006 at 12:16
finnt - who is the Danish service constractor ?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MEANSTREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2006 at 16:07
Originally posted by doppiaemme doppiaemme wrote:

Hi guys!

I'm just joined the "Black frame society" :-(
I will send my 7D to repair service, I'm still underd warranty.

What I'm asking is:
If they can repair the problem (someone said it is a shutter's issue), will they use a new shutter model?
I mean, after K-M realized there was a project error which involved so many cameras, did they produce a re-engineered shutter?? Or they are just changing the broken shutter with another of the same type, which maybe is prone to the same matter in the future?

The last question is:
If they can't repair the camera and give refund, how much is that refund? Is there someone who knows?

thanks,

Massimo



I asked that question myself but I've never heard anyone provide an answer. I also wonder if the the Sony shutter   is any better.

I could swear I've seen one or two posts somewhere that indicated they had the problem repeat after a repair but it wasn't clear if the shutter was replaced. I've also heard of people getting rid of the problem without replacing the shutter by doing differnt things like cleaning all the lens and battery contacts. I truly believe that there is more than one cause of the problem or a combination of things like a weak shutter and low voltage issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote BasK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2006 at 17:10
Mine's just back from repairs here in Holland. According to the papers they replaced the "lense mechanism". I don't know what that means, I just hope I can use my camera (finally) for several years without problems!
After calling the repair centre in Holland (Badhoevedorp) they confirmed that the shutter is replaced. Apparently still some spares here in Holland!


Edited by BasK - 28 November 2006 at 11:43
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jkp1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2006 at 17:35
dktrident,
the Danish servicecenter is PW Service, see...

PW-service

Actually my cam is off for repair because of the black (blue)frame syndrome :-(

Edited by jkp1 - 25 November 2006 at 17:36
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Post Options Post Options   Quote finnt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2006 at 19:00
Well, I'm having the same problem again - with the new shutter...!! (Got the 7D back from repair 29. may 2006).

:-((((

At exposure number 2394, camera froze and recorded one almost black frame.
Same cure as last time - turn off - turn on, and it works again.

dktrident - sorry I did'nt answer your question. I try to keep up with the treads i'm involved in, but I missed this one..

I live near by PW-service, which seems to be a great advantage for me just now... I can just pop by with the 7D whenever I need to....!

They have repaired Minolta for more than 40 years, I was told. Nice people and they have time for a little chat even when they are busy.

I will contact PW-service and ask if there are any warranty on the repair itself... (but I doubt that...!)

I expect the problem to get worse over time, like last time, so I'm having a lot of thoughts right now. I planned to keep the 7D for a long time.

Happy shooting to you all.

Finn





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