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First Shot Black (sort of)

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MEANSTREAK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MEANSTREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: First Shot Black (sort of)
    Posted: 01 December 2006 at 14:47
I experianced a strange error on my 5D yesterday. It was the first shot, and the camera acted as if it was dead after I toke the first shot. The LCD display would not light up. In the viewfinder I could see "ERR" in the display. I cycled the camera on and off and it was fine. The picture did come and was sort of bluish and underexposed. According to the opinions of others in another forum it is the same as first shot black but the picture is not completely black. I have seen the "ERR" message once before but not with the same symptoms.

Coincidently the camera did take a minor drop a few days before. It was inside a standard Minolta hip bag and fell off a chair and landed on commercial carpet. I checked it out and it worked fine after the drop. No problems taking pictures or trouble with the AS system. I put it away for a few days and then experienced the problem. I'm not saying the drop definitely has anything to do with it, but thought it might be a possibility.

Jim over at Steve's Digicams Forum had the first shot black issue along time ago and has sucessfully eliminated by doing a couple of things and I tried his solution. I cleaned all of the contacts... battery, battery compartment and lens contacts. After cleaning the contacts I then fired off a full card of continuous shots in JPG mode at a high shutter speed. After two days of the camera sitting I have no problems. It is either fixed, or it didn't sit long enough, or I really didn't have the problem to begin with. I guess it's also possible that in the early stages it doesn't occur on a regular basis, but most of the posts I read seem to indicate that once it starts happening it is pretty consistant. Only time will tell. I am going to let the 5D sit for a week and use one of my spares. Hopefully the problem is gone, but it is still under warranty.





Edited by MEANSTREAK - 01 December 2006 at 14:48
 



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nigelbrooks View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nigelbrooks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2006 at 14:52
Fingers crossed for you, but I would get it off for a warranty repair at the first sign of any further trouble.
I've been away!
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MEANSTREAK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MEANSTREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2006 at 15:03
I still have quite a bit of time on the warranty and I also have an extra year through Circuit City which I paid less than 8 dollars for. The reason I got the warrnaty so cheap is I bought the unit with just the kit lens from their display for 265 US dollars with no accessories. I believe that since I purchased it with American Express I also have an extra year through them though it is kind of redundant since I have the Circuit City warranty.

My biggest fear is that if during the repair process Sony discovers how little I paid, they might opt to buy it out instead of repair it. I doubt that Precision Camera would tell them since they probably make money in doing the repairs and probably don't make much on the Sony buy out program. If it needs repair, I have a gift receipt copy with no price on it so I think I have all of the angles covered.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2006 at 04:31
As I mentioned in another recent post, my 5D suddenly began doing this in August, after I'd had it for six months. This would happen about once every day. Most times the frame was totally black, but I also encountered several deep blue underexposed shots, and some very strangely pixelated variations. I tried every magic solution I could think of, with no results.

In late October I flew across country with my camera. During the next ten days I used the camera in much colder weather than where I live, and of course passed it though x-ray machines and on four plane flights. Since I returned home about a month ago, the camera has not malfunctioned once! I have no idea if this is just a coincidence, or if something about my trip made a difference.

I don't believe this issue has any single solution, because many people have reported such different stories. Repairs by Konica Minolta, such as a shutter replacement, did not always correct the problem. I seriously doubt that a new shutter would have fixed mine, because the symptoms I saw didn't seem to be related to the shutter mechanism at all. In fact, the last I heard, Sony is not repairing this problem, but they are instead offering some sort of reimbursement or A100 replacement program.

If you otherwise are happy with your camera, rather than send it off for service, I would give it a little time to see what happens. Maybe pop it in the refrigerator for a few hours or take it on a plane flight somewhere. ;)
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David_S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote David_S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2006 at 14:30
Below is the first "non-black frame" my 5d exhibited. It has become an actual black frame now and happens pretty regularly. I have another 5D body for backup and mine is under warranty until February so I'll send it in after the Holidays.

DS

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Dainis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dainis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2006 at 16:01
Hi all,

This is very strange problem because it’s very difficult to indicate correctly what the cause for such behavior is.
I had the same problem. That happened three times during last two month. JPEG frame was completely black, but in the case of RAW, there was black frame with dark blue pixilated variations. And all three times, it happened only after I changed the lens. After I switched camera off and on, all was fine again.
At the first moment, I thought that problem is defective lens, but this happened with other lenses too. So I think this problem could be connected with lens contacts and lens control. Possibly it is error in firmware.

I am wondering if 7D owners also encounter the same problem.


P.S. I’m smooth English reader, but horrible writer, so I hope you will forgive my language :)
 



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KonicaA3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote KonicaA3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2006 at 16:20
Just a question, do you turn off your camera before removing and mounting lenses? It is a good practice and helps to reduce the amount of dust and debris attracted to the sensor.

Edited by KonicaA3 - 02 December 2006 at 16:22
Sony A77ii | Sigma APO 75-300 F4-5.6 | Minolta 70-210 F4 | Tamron 18-250 F3.5-6.3 Di |Minolta 35-70 F4 | Minolta 100-200 F4.5 | Sigma 18-125 F3.5-5.6

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David_S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote David_S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2006 at 16:45
I really don't think this problem is related to lens change or contact problems. Maybe on a few isolated incidents. There have been many cases where some form of shutter replacement has been performed to correct the problem. There are a lot of post here and on other forums on the black frame problem. Mine does it when the camera has been sitting for a day or so. Doesn't matter if the camera was turned of or left in standby. No lens change made (though I do turn it off when changing lenses). I can tell by the sound it makes that it has occurred. The shutter sound is just not as loud and quick as a good shot. I turn it off then back on and all is well until the next time.

DS
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Ivan Lee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ivan Lee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2006 at 22:20
My problem is worse... I bought my camera second hand, and I live in Brazil (no KM service here)

I hope it`s not a shutter problem... because most cameras are built to last at least 30.000 cycles!!

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mio-km View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mio-km Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2006 at 23:23
When I get the black frame I see no "err" in the display nor in the viewfinder, just darkness. However I just realised that it does not do it with my telezoom. (Two times a whole week, left off. First frame, no probs.)

Anyways, lens, shutter, AF, what ever the problem is. Has any one besides sybersitizen experienced it to go away ?
BR Mio



Dynax 5D, 18-70 AF DT, 35-105 N, 75-300 AF D, HVL-F56AM
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sybersitizen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2006 at 17:31
Originally posted by Dainis Dainis wrote:

I am wondering if 7D owners also encounter the same problem.

Yes, both cameras can be affected. Here's a current example:

7D black frame

We'll have to wait and see if someone reports this with the A100 as well. The many variations, sometimes severe, sometimes correctable, make this a very mysterious problem.
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Camillo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Camillo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2006 at 08:13
Originally posted by David_S David_S wrote:

I really don't think this problem is related to lens change or contact problems. Maybe on a few isolated incidents.


Well, for me it has only ever happened after a lens change, and even then rarely. Mentally, I've put it down to some kind of power-up self-calibration failure, but that's just a wild guess based on my years in the IT business...
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