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Black Frame or Extremely Under Exposed

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The Shoeman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Shoeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Black Frame or Extremely Under Exposed
    Posted: 07 December 2006 at 16:38
I posted this to the Black Frame Post

Didn't know if this would be a better subject title for my question.

Originally posted by The Shoeman The Shoeman wrote:

I have been having issues with this black frame problem for about a month now. It started with every now and then but progressively got worse. I have shut it off and turn it on and would not fix it. I have reset the camera and that didn't fix it. I have noticed like some others that it looks underexposed on some of the frames but almost all of them would be black. I also shoot in aperture priority constantly.

I was shooting outside today and notice the underexposed frames again and tried something different. I put the camera on manual and set the time to longer than what the camera was going to allow for a certain aperture. Low and behold, I got an overexposed picture first try, and every shot after. I switched back to Aperture Priority and the black frame came back. I switched back to the manual and adjusted the speed a little bit faster and the shot came out nice.

What is going on with Aperture Priority?????
Minolta 7D | 20/2.8 | 35/2 RS | 50/1.4 | 50/1.7 | 50/2.8 Macro | 85/1.4 G RS | 100/2 | 100/2.8 D Macro | 100-300 APO | 300/2.8 APO | 5600D HS Flash x2

Sony A99 | A77 | 85/1.4 CZ | 70-200/2.8 G SSM
 



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NealF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NealF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 December 2006 at 16:43
It sounds like your internal lightmeter might be broken.
What is your metering-mode and could you describe your subject?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nigelbrooks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 December 2006 at 17:00
Shoeman.


I like a systematice approach before 'diagnosis'.

First, do a full reset, just to erradicate the possibility that you have dialled-in some really weird settings.

Secondly check with multiple lenses, is something sticking, slow to react and affecting only one lens?

Thirdly, just set everything to full auto and snap away, what do the results look like?

Fourthgly, and finally, a simple move to AP, no other changes, what are the results like now?

If still no joy, then a visit to Precision looks on the cards.

Edited by nigelbrooks - 07 December 2006 at 17:06
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NealF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 December 2006 at 17:43
Good points Nigel,

I assumed that the OP had already tried these things.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Shoeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 December 2006 at 18:21
I have tried resetting the camera and also different lenses. Neither worked.

I have tried the speed priority as well as aperture priority and they both seem to have this exposure issue. Manual setting shows in the view finder that the exposure is correct and the picture is very dark almost black. When I set the speed and aperture to overexpose according to the meter inside the viewfinder by 2 stops, it looks ok to me.

So, it does sound like a metering issue. Has anyone else who thought they had the Black Frame Syndrome that also had some underexposed shots. Have they tried different settings? Maybe force the camera to overexpose and see if it just compensates for the underexposure to meet in the middle with a nice picture???????????
Minolta 7D | 20/2.8 | 35/2 RS | 50/1.4 | 50/1.7 | 50/2.8 Macro | 85/1.4 G RS | 100/2 | 100/2.8 D Macro | 100-300 APO | 300/2.8 APO | 5600D HS Flash x2

Sony A99 | A77 | 85/1.4 CZ | 70-200/2.8 G SSM
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nigelbrooks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 December 2006 at 22:21
Damn!

Last suggestion before you pack it up and send to the 7D doctor is to try a few 'bracketed' (-2 0 +2) shots and see if there is any significant difference between them and if any are acceptable.

If not, I'm afraid its a trip to the menders.

The black frame issue is just that AFAIK, totally black with no image recorded as the shutter doesn't fire/misfires.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NealF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2006 at 09:56
What metering mode are you using?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2006 at 18:12
Originally posted by nigelbrooks nigelbrooks wrote:

The black frame issue is just that AFAIK, totally black with no image recorded as the shutter doesn't fire/misfires.


No, not correct. My 5D began producing black frames, then I would also occasionally get a blue-only underexposed frame, or a third type of strangely pixellated variation. Then it corrected itself and I haven't seen a malfunction in over a month. (There are so many different threads going on about this issue that it's hard to keep all of the data visible to everyone.)

Edited by sybersitizen - 08 December 2006 at 18:13
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Shoeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2006 at 18:18
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

Originally posted by nigelbrooks nigelbrooks wrote:

The black frame issue is just that AFAIK, totally black with no image recorded as the shutter doesn't fire/misfires.


No, not correct. My 5D began producing black frames, then I would also occasionally get a blue-only underexposed frame, or a third type of strangely pixellated variation. Then it corrected itself and I haven't seen a malfunction in over a month. (There are so many different threads going on about this issue that it's hard to keep all of the data visible to everyone.)

Sorry about adding another thread to this topic. I just have not seen an alternative to the Black Frame Syndrome. My problem seemed to come about in the middle of using it, sporadically.




Originally posted by nigelbrooks nigelbrooks wrote:

Damn!

Last suggestion before you pack it up and send to the 7D doctor is to try a few 'bracketed' (-2 0 +2) shots and see if there is any significant difference between them and if any are acceptable.

If not, I'm afraid its a trip to the menders.

The black frame issue is just that AFAIK, totally black with no image recorded as the shutter doesn't fire/misfires.


So sporadic that I tried the bracketing with 5 shots and they all came out correctly (dark and light, but appropriate for each level) so it wasn't problematic last night.

I need to play with it more and see when it does act up, to try the bracketing then.

On a side note, I should be receiving my SONY on Monday. :-}


Edited by The Shoeman - 10 December 2006 at 22:26
Minolta 7D | 20/2.8 | 35/2 RS | 50/1.4 | 50/1.7 | 50/2.8 Macro | 85/1.4 G RS | 100/2 | 100/2.8 D Macro | 100-300 APO | 300/2.8 APO | 5600D HS Flash x2

Sony A99 | A77 | 85/1.4 CZ | 70-200/2.8 G SSM
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RobY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2006 at 21:39
Had a real shock, got a "black frame" only to realise I'd been shooting on manual and hadn't re-set the dial! That'll teach me to check exposure bars!

All's well now.

Rob
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nigelbrooks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2006 at 00:37
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

Originally posted by nigelbrooks nigelbrooks wrote:

The black frame issue is just that AFAIK, totally black with no image recorded as the shutter doesn't fire/misfires.


No, not correct. My 5D began producing black frames, then I would also occasionally get a blue-only underexposed frame, or a third type of strangely pixellated variation. Then it corrected itself and I haven't seen a malfunction in over a month. (There are so many different threads going on about this issue that it's hard to keep all of the data visible to everyone.)


Apologies, not my intention to confuse anyone.

As I said, AFAIK, the totally black frame issue is related to shutter failure. Doubtless there are any number of other possible defects relating to odd pixelation and strange behaviour.

Edited by nigelbrooks - 09 December 2006 at 00:37
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2006 at 02:39
Well, Nigel, here's the thing. I was having basically the classic 'black frame' phenomenon for a few weeks. First shot fails, camera locks up, requires power off/on, resulting picture is black. Some time later I began to notice a few blue frames in there as well: First shot fails, camera locks up, requires power off/on but resulting picture is blue. Then still later I also started seeing a few almost-normal images but with weird pixel content: First shot fails, camera locks up, requires power off/on but resulting picture has wrong-colored pixels. But statistically most of the bad frames (about 90%) were still totally black. See what I mean? This was almost certainly one problem manifesting itself three ways, and I think it's very unlikely that it was caused by the shutter. Also, the fact that all three manifestations have completely stopped happening (although I don't know why) indicates that it was indeed a single problem.

I know that some people have reported ONLY black frames, and some of those people have subsequently reported that their problem stopped after a shutter replacement. But others have also reported that the problem was still there after a shutter replacement!

So the hypothesis that I subscribe to at the moment is that the act of replacing the shutter MIGHT sometimes help because the camera has to be partially disassembled and fiddled with; and it could be some other aspect of that fiddling or re-assembly, like cleaning or who-knows-what the technicians do, that actually makes the difference - not the replacement shutter itself.

As I said in another thread on this subject, it's voodoo. ;)

Edited by sybersitizen - 09 December 2006 at 02:47
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2006 at 03:06
Shoeman, can you confirm whether this is still happening only in 'A' mode? I change modes pretty frequently, and I never really thought about what mode the camera was in when this happened.
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The Shoeman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Shoeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 December 2006 at 06:36
I checked it in S mode as well and it was still doing the same shots. When I followed the light meter on the camera in M mode, it would still do the same shots as well. I have gotten completely black shots though and the exposure wasn't even close, if anything at all.

When I use the M mode, I have to over expose the shot by 2 and then the shot looks good. When the shot would have worked, this over compensation make for a picture that is too bright.

I have not had the camera just lock up and require a restart to fix it.

So, I guess I don't have the 'Black Frame' then?

Thank for everyone's input.

Minolta 7D | 20/2.8 | 35/2 RS | 50/1.4 | 50/1.7 | 50/2.8 Macro | 85/1.4 G RS | 100/2 | 100/2.8 D Macro | 100-300 APO | 300/2.8 APO | 5600D HS Flash x2

Sony A99 | A77 | 85/1.4 CZ | 70-200/2.8 G SSM
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