FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IR conversion of live-view Sony?

Page  123>
Author
cvicisso View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie

Joined: 02 June 2012
Country: United States
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Posts: 56
Post Options Post Options   Quote cvicisso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: IR conversion of live-view Sony?
    Posted: 18 March 2013 at 08:09
Hi - I've read the tutorials on converting an Alpha 100 to IR (or rather - 'open' spectrum, which I like even more). I even purchased an A100 with that specific purpose in mind, but had to return it because the anti-shake mechanism was toast...

Has anyone attempted this with a [Sony] camera with live-view? I have a NEX-6 now (with LA-EA2 adapter), and I don't really want to do surgery on it, but I am slowly building my Sony/Minolta lens base, so a Sony body makes the most sense (can be NEX or 'normal' Alpha body). I'm specifically interested in live-view bodies so that I can take advantage of focusing if shooting IR only (with an IR filter on the lens).

The previously-mentioned tutorials replace the IR filter on the sensor with clear glass - which is genius! - which allows you to fiddle around with whatever spectrum you like (including 'normal') by using filters on the lens (because, recall, there is now no filter on the sensor). BUT, with an A100 (or any other body without live view) you can't focus with the dark IR filter on the end of the lens (because there's no live view of what's hitting the sensor - which is only IR light... which we can't see with human eyes through a normal viewfinder).

So, that was a long explanation for what you probably already knew , but... does anyone have any recommendations or personal experience or a link to another tutorial for live-view cameras?

Thanks in advance.
 



Back to Top
yuri1111 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 09 November 2007
Country: Slovenia
Location: Slovenia
Status: Offline
Posts: 196
Post Options Post Options   Quote yuri1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2013 at 10:11
I have NEX-3 without IR filter on a sensor. Even with SEL 16mm, I shoot in MF only. Focus peeking works great. I shoot BW jpegs + RAW, so I see "normal black & white" live on the screen and can play with "open spectrum" RAWs in post production. For proper IR photography just put an IR pass filter on the lens.

This kind of NEX is affordable, light and small, which are good attributes for second camera. It also records "open spectrum" 720p video...

"open" NEX-3 + SEL 16mm 2.8 example:
Everything is possible.
Back to Top
Alex H View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Knowledgebase Contributor

Joined: 06 November 2008
Country: Sweden
Location: Stockholm
Status: Offline
Posts: 1591
Post Options Post Options   Quote Alex H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2013 at 10:14
I did DIY conversions of NEX-3 and NEX-5N long ago. I have recorded the process with pictures and can give You the link later on today. Pete Ganzel did the same with NEX-5.

Please note that, besides a much larger choice of lenses that can be adapted for NEX cameras comparing to SLR, there is one more important advantage - You can put the filter between the lens and the camera, inside the adapter. Very important if You want to use fisheye lenses and other lenses without front filter mount, or with very large front elements.



Here is my full-spectrum converted NEX-3 with 21mm wide angle lens. One of the filters I use only comes in 1.25 inch and 2 inch diameters, so the only way to use it with such lens is to put it inside the adapter.

I am planning to get myself a NEX-&in the nearest future, and convert it to full-spectrum.
Back to Top
cvicisso View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie

Joined: 02 June 2012
Country: United States
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Posts: 56
Post Options Post Options   Quote cvicisso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2013 at 10:25
Originally posted by yuri1111 yuri1111 wrote:

I have NEX-3 without IR filter on a sensor. Even with SEL 16mm, I shoot in MF only. Focus peeking works great. I shoot BW jpegs + RAW, so I see "normal black & white" live on the screen and can play with "open spectrum" RAWs in post production. For proper IR photography just put an IR pass filter on the lens.

This kind of NEX is affordable, light and small, which are good attributes for second camera. It also records "open spectrum" 720p video...


WOW! That photo is STUNNING... and exactly the sort of thing I'm after (read: what I aspire to do)! Actually, if I end up pulling the trigger on this setup, I'm going to also spring for the Sigma 8-16mm [Alpha-mount] lens to see what ultra-wide IR can do!

Thanks for also confirming the focus-peaking usability. For that and other reasons I was leaning toward a second NEX body rather than an SLT Alpha.
Back to Top
cvicisso View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie

Joined: 02 June 2012
Country: United States
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Posts: 56
Post Options Post Options   Quote cvicisso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2013 at 10:33
Originally posted by Alex H Alex H wrote:

I did DIY conversions of NEX-3 and NEX-5N long ago. I have recorded the process with pictures and can give You the link later on today. Pete Ganzel did the same with NEX-5.

Please note that, besides a much larger choice of lenses that can be adapted for NEX cameras comparing to SLR, there is one more important advantage - You can put the filter between the lens and the camera, inside the adapter. Very important if You want to use fisheye lenses and other lenses without front filter mount, or with very large front elements.

Here is my full-spectrum converted NEX-3 with 21mm wide angle lens. One of the filters I use only comes in 1.25 inch and 2 inch diameters, so the only way to use it with such lens is to put it inside the adapter.

I am planning to get myself a NEX-&in the nearest future, and convert it to full-spectrum.


Ok, now I am officially SOLD on the idea!! I never thought about the filter-in-the-adapter idea... GENIUS!!! How does this work, exactly? I see you have an non-Sony adapter... that's what I'll get for the second body too since there's no sense wasting the SLT technology and motor drive of my LA-EA2 if I plan on manually focusing anyway. But where does the filter FIT in the adapter without interfering with mounting on the body or lens? Wow - I am still excited about this!! ONE set of filters!! BRILLIANT!!

And yes, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE send me the links to your conversion (and Pete Ganzel's if he posted one as well) at your earliest convenience.

And what model NEX are you considering in the future? I think you might have fat-fingered the model # in your previous post.   
Back to Top
Alex H View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Knowledgebase Contributor

Joined: 06 November 2008
Country: Sweden
Location: Stockholm
Status: Offline
Posts: 1591
Post Options Post Options   Quote Alex H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2013 at 10:39
I will post some pictures of the adapter later tonight, as well as the links to DIY conversions.

NEX-6 will be my next full-spectrum camera. I love using EVF.
 



Back to Top
cvicisso View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie

Joined: 02 June 2012
Country: United States
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Posts: 56
Post Options Post Options   Quote cvicisso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2013 at 10:52
Originally posted by Alex H Alex H wrote:

I will post some pictures of the adapter later tonight, as well as the links to DIY conversions.

NEX-6 will be my next full-spectrum camera. I love using EVF.

Thanks, Alex. I was guessing that you were going to say NEX-7 for the increased megapixels, but I love my NEX-6, and can understand your choice! But I'm still curious... if it's just the EVF you're after, why not just get a FDA-EV1S for your 5N for a fraction of what an NEX-6 will cost?
Back to Top
Alex H View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Knowledgebase Contributor

Joined: 06 November 2008
Country: Sweden
Location: Stockholm
Status: Offline
Posts: 1591
Post Options Post Options   Quote Alex H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2013 at 10:55
EVF, flash shoe, better manual controls. I will sell my NEX-5N to recoup some of the expenses anyway.
Back to Top
cvicisso View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie

Joined: 02 June 2012
Country: United States
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Posts: 56
Post Options Post Options   Quote cvicisso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2013 at 11:07
Originally posted by Alex H Alex H wrote:

EVF, flash shoe, better manual controls. I will sell my NEX-5N to recoup some of the expenses anyway.

Hmmmm... I happen to know a guy who is interested in a full-spectrum NEX body!!   

But seriously, if you were in my shoes (with a new NEX-6), would you buy a spare body to convert to full spectrum, (or buy one already such-converted) OR...

I was thinking (dangerous)... I never intend on buying another E-mount lens. I love the 16-50 that came with the NEX-6, mainly because of its' compact size and wide(r) range, but none of the other lenses impress me at all (I hope that changes - but I'm fine either way because of my LA-EA2). That said, what do you think of the idea just getting an IR filter for the 16-50 (meaning one that BLOCKS IR), converting the body to full-spectrum and shooting the way you do with your NEX-FS bodies + adapter (when NOT using the 16-50)? I don't know if it's possible to pop a filter in the LA-EA2 like you described with your setup, but...

What would you do in my position?
Back to Top
Alex H View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Knowledgebase Contributor

Joined: 06 November 2008
Country: Sweden
Location: Stockholm
Status: Offline
Posts: 1591
Post Options Post Options   Quote Alex H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2013 at 11:18
I would have two bodies, one for normal and one for infrared/ultraviolet/false color work.

The reason is simple. If You want to use a full-spectrum converted body to shoot "normal" pictures (in visible light) You need to use a special filter too. The one that blocks IR AND UV (UVIR-cut) and which transmission curve is the same as the curve of ICF (internal cut filter) that was removed from the camera originally.

Unfortunately, spectral transmission of proprietary ICF is not the same as for the generic UVIR-cut filters. The spectral transmission of proprietary ICF is used by software engineers when creating color profiles for proper RAW conversion in camera and in software. Simply speaking, if You use generic UVIR-cut filters for normal photography with full-spectrum modified camera, the colors will be off. You would need to use grey card and color standards to create color profiles for different shooting conditions. That is not convenient at all.
Back to Top
cvicisso View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie

Joined: 02 June 2012
Country: United States
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Posts: 56
Post Options Post Options   Quote cvicisso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2013 at 11:24
Originally posted by Alex H Alex H wrote:

I would have two bodies, one for normal and one for infrared/ultraviolet/false color work.

The reason is simple. If You want to use a full-spectrum converted body to shoot "normal" pictures (in visible light) You need to use a special filter too. The one that blocks IR AND UV (UVIR-cut) and which transmission curve is the same as the curve of ICF (internal cut filter) that was removed from the camera originally.

Unfortunately, spectral transmission of proprietary ICF is not the same as for the generic UVIR-cut filters. The spectral transmission of proprietary ICF is used by software engineers when creating color profiles for proper RAW conversion in camera and in software. Simply speaking, if You use generic UVIR-cut filters for normal photography with full-spectrum modified camera, the colors will be off. You would need to use grey card and color standards to create color profiles for different shooting conditions. That is not convenient at all.

Your explanations are clear, concise, and perfect for newbies like me. Thank you! Feel free to PM me if interested in unloading your FS 5N! I'll weigh the cost vs. fear when I read your tutorial for conversion!
Back to Top
cvicisso View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie

Joined: 02 June 2012
Country: United States
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Posts: 56
Post Options Post Options   Quote cvicisso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2013 at 13:40
Alex H - I just started looking at your gallery via the link in your signature line. WOW! Incredible...

And not only from a photographic perspective... The very first picture I clicked on (the Taras Shevchenko monument) I immediately recognized without even seeing the caption! I've been there!! My wife was born and raised in L'viv, and we were married there 10 years ago. Small world!!
Back to Top
Alex H View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Knowledgebase Contributor

Joined: 06 November 2008
Country: Sweden
Location: Stockholm
Status: Offline
Posts: 1591
Post Options Post Options   Quote Alex H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2013 at 16:44
Hi Ron, small world indeed (my wife is from FL and we met and got married in LA).

Here are the links to two galleries:

NEX-3 disassembly

NEX-5N disassembly

Pete Ganzel page:

NEX-5 disassembly

As for the adapter, here is what I use. The picture above is a Canon-EF to NEX adapter. These adapters usually are wide enough to insert 49mm or 52mm filter deep inside, unlike adapters for M42 for example, which are narrower. But also, with another adapter I can use Nikon, Olympus, Exakta, M42 and other lenses with this adapter.

To firmly affix the filter inside I use black self-adhesive neoprene foam. I think I got it in Michaels in US, but am not sure. Just cut a thin strip of foam, as wide as the filter ring is, and wrap it around the filter ring. Do not overlap the foam, but cut it at an angle where edges will connect to prevent light from leaking. When inserted in the adapter, this foam holds the filter inside, but also seals the edges and prevents light from leaking.

Hope it helps. Will be glad to answer any other questions.

I will be selling my NEX-5N but unfortunately not in the nearest future. Prices for NEX-6 are still above what I want to pay...
Back to Top
Micholand View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Knowledgebase Contributor

Joined: 30 October 2005
Country: Germany
Location: MUC
Status: Offline
Posts: 13130
Post Options Post Options   Quote Micholand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2013 at 17:39
Like Alex H, I also did a DIY conversion and removed the hot mirror of my NEX-5N (full spectrum conversion). And now using lens screw-on filters: IR or UVIR-cut on the SEL18-55 kit when shooting. Small little combo which is a joy to use whether in AF or MF (+focus peaking).

The disassembly like shown in the Alex' gallery is quite simple. The only tricky thing is when everything is assembled again and the LCD backpanel is, in the last step, attached to the body again and thereby the LCD ribbon cable needs to be lock in its connector on the mainboard again.

IR pictures taken with this NEX-5N and Heliopan RG715 IR-filter can be seen in here.
Back to Top
Dyxum main page >  Forum Home > Equipment forums > Camera Talk Page  123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.079 seconds.

Monitor calibration strip

Dyxum.com - Home of the alpha system photographer

In memory of Cameron Hill - brettania

Feel free to contact us if needed.