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IMPORTANT; First frame black issue

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jstartin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jstartin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: IMPORTANT; First frame black issue
    Posted: 03 January 2007 at 22:38
New threads on what sounds like the now widely experienced "first shot black" problem continue to appear. I suggest all 5D and 7D users read the information contained in this current thread on DPR:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1035&message=21504065
and especially the post from "pvelz"
For German readers, see the source thread:
http://www.photoscala.de/node/2387

It does increasing seem that our cameras have an inherent design error that will, sooner or later, lead to this problem on most of them, apart from the very last 5D production.

Perhaps Dyxum members should take an active role, along with other user groups and internet forums, in pressing KM/Sony for a recall.




Edited by Kiklop - 03 January 2007 at 23:45
 



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kiklop View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2007 at 23:04
Thanks for the info.
Unfortunately, this isn't new to me since i already stated that must be a design flaw since it's added in 5D service manual and well documented by KM and so many cameras are affected.
I doubt there is any chance for a recall, since most cameras are out of warranty or the issue will not be evident until some point when the warranty will expire (and i think Sony have just enough lost with various recalls recently :( )

I will go even further and share some of my correspondence with a former minolta rep; KM had big big problems with various issues on 7D (not so many with 5D) and they have lost significant money and resources in providing service to 7D owners. According to this KM rep KM has lost a big deal of "enthusiasm" for photo imaging section in the past, especially because they simply didn't have adequate support network and resources.

Now, on the bright side, i been notified today that one of my 7D that i have sent for exactly the same reason is fixed and i can expect it relatively soon. After i receive it, and if it will be in perfect good condition i will send my second 7D for servicing (again this issue).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hobgoblin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2007 at 23:04
Should we all write letters to Sony whether we have suffered this problem or not? Might be an idea to let them know that people are aware of what is the true situation.

Don't forget that we in the UK can also rely on sale of goods legislation and can claim against the retailer for up to six years after purchase.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2007 at 23:22
The best thing IMHO would be if we (7D / 5D owners) may organize ourself and act together. Not only various forum members in separate forums, but rather one international initiative.

If not for any other reason then for pressing Sony to declare them self about this issue. Eventually, this may "sound bad" for Sony marketing section and they may (but i don't count too much on this) offer something too all users affected by this issue.   

Edited by Kiklop - 03 January 2007 at 23:23
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ab012 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ab012 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2007 at 23:25
kiklop

i have downloaded the service manuals but have been having a hard time locating the exact reference... can you tell me which document it is in? (and page number even if possible)
Bernard

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Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2007 at 23:31
7D reapir manual that i have (and that is provided here for download is most probably old revision and this isnfo isn't listed. But in the 5D repair manual (also provided here for download) you can find this in "2186 Supplementary Information" pdf file;

"
symptom: Unexposure at the first time after leaving for a certain period. (Error 58)

Cause: Pressure to the Shutter assy cam roller was applied for a certain period.

Measure: AF charge assy (2186-0521-02) and shutter assy (2186-0210) ex-change
"

Edited by Kiklop - 03 January 2007 at 23:31
 



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kiklop View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2007 at 23:37
BTW, you can see the picture and parts involved mentioned in german article in "2181 Parts Modification List" pdf file in 7D service manual
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jstartin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2007 at 23:50
Originally posted by Kiklop Kiklop wrote:

Thanks for the info.
Unfortunately, this isn't new to me since i already stated that must be a design flaw since it's added in 5D service manual and well documented by KM and so many cameras are affected.

Yes, the information in the service manual supplement has been available for some time, and I have quoted it in several threads. My first impression from the new DPR thread was that some other KM document had surfaced. Unfortunately I don't read German well enough to be sure.

I doubt there is any chance for a recall, since most cameras are out of warranty or the issue will not be evident until some point when the warranty will expire

I also doubt that a general recall is likely, but if KM were, indeed, continuing to manufacture and distribute cameras knowning that there was a latent fault then there must be some liability under international law. It is increasingly clear that this is not just a few cameras (or even many cameras)with substandard manufacturing, but an error in the design of a part.

I am not sure about the rest of the EU, or the rest of Europe, but in the UK the law provides for some redress for 6 years from purchase if it can be shown that failure is the result of an inherent design defect (rather than the bad luck of having an example that just breaks down early). Assembling the information that gives proof of such a defect might therefore be important.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MarkSangenito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 00:06
I had a question. I have had about 2 or so black frames happen, i turn off the camera and turn it back on and its good to go. However...its obviously happening. I am scared it is going to get worse, it is still under warranty, do you think I should try to have it repaired even though I doubt they would be able to recreate the problem, just if they see that this part is in it?

what would you all do?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ab012 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 00:07
Thanks kiklop

This is extremely disappointing and discouraging.



Bernard

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omerbey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote omerbey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 00:13
kiklop how much does this repair cost and where can it be made?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 00:42
Originally posted by omerbey omerbey wrote:

kiklop how much does this repair cost and where can it be made?

I don't know yet but will let you know as soon i found it out. My estimates is 100-150 but this is just my guess based on some previous reports. This one is less than year old but since i bought it second handed i didn't have original invoke and the warranty card was not filled properly so i'm not counting on any discount.

It's more than one month since i have sent my 7D (and that was supposed to be a privileged process since i made some contacts with local sony reps :( ) and just today have been notified that is fixed and it is supposed to be sent to Croatia (is still in Germany).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 00:46
Originally posted by MarkSangenito MarkSangenito wrote:

I had a question. I have had about 2 or so black frames happen, i turn off the camera and turn it back on and its good to go. However...its obviously happening. I am scared it is going to get worse, it is still under warranty, do you think I should try to have it repaired even though I doubt they would be able to recreate the problem, just if they see that this part is in it?

what would you all do?


If it's still under warranty i wouldn't hesitate to send it for repair. This is a documented issue, and they will know what's wrong with it.
Also, keep in mind, that we don't know for how long spare parts will be available, so hesitating may be too risky IMHO.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiginscotland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 01:27
I've got 2 months left on my warrenty and i'm seriously thinking about just sending my 7D away and telling them i've had this problem, even though i haven't. They clearly know the problem is there and probably don't even test for it anymore. This way it's fixed and i don't spend my days wondering when it will happen.
Either that or i sell up and get something else, which i really don't want to do.
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