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Dumont 
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Joined: 17 February 2006 Country: United States Location: New Jersey, USA Status: Offline Posts: 1846 |
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 Posted: 29 March 2007 at 05:21 |
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Hi again Aaron,
OK, so please let me try to get this straight and in layman terms. The Optical Slave Flash Trigger (OSFT), you provided the link for, attaches to the flash (see more about that below) and you can use "unlimited" amounts of flashes set up the same way and the trigger is the on camera flash? i.e. there is no unit to plug into the sync port of my 7D (like the radio ones)? Or am I getting all confused here? Next, I have some FS-1200's - So I would attach the Maxxum (4 contact - say 5400HS) flash to the FS1200 which in turn connects to the OSFT. Set the flash to manual mode and choose the strength and the zooming and then just shoot with the on board or any flash that connects to my 7D (corded or WL) and it will trigger the OSFT mounted 5400HS? Did you mention that for the connection between the FS1200 and the OSFT I would need to block the contact of one/some of the three contacts on the bottom of the FS1200? If so which one(s)?  
And here's a pic of my wired menagerie (not setup for a product shot but just to get them all in the same frame) and you can see the OC-1100 get's in the way. Wireless Optical triggers seems like a good solution since I already have 3 FS-1200 adapters. BTW you will see some sensor dust in this photo which is quite unavoidable between cleanings especially at f22!  Edited by Dumont - 29 March 2007 at 06:35 |
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georgiaboy
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Moderator Emeritus Joined: 01 December 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Posts: 1338 |
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Posted: 29 March 2007 at 08:34 |
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Hi Dumont,
I will try and give you the best descripton I can: FLASH SETUP: 1. On a light stand or tripod attach a regular hotshoe adaptor (oem type). 1a.If you buy the type that has a optical sensor built in (cheap Ebay type) they typically have the screw mount already on the bottom. It looks as though from the above spaghetti mix that you have mounts that will accept these already and you will not need to go direct to the light stand. 1B. If you have hot shoes that do not have optical sensors then they must have sync ports so a optical sensor can be attached to it. I prefer this type because you can remove the sensor if you want to and then you have sync ports if you want to go wired. But you already have those as indicated above in the #2 picture. 2. Then slide your FS-1200 into the hot shoe/sensor combo. 3. Then slide the Minolta mount flash into the FS-1200. 3a. It is at this point I want to discuss the taping of the pins on the bottom of the FS-1200. The typical oem plain hot shoe only has connections to 2 locations The center pin, and the ground to the flash. With the standard oem feet the ground connection is actually on the sides and is not always a pin. With my Minolta mount Sunpak and Vivitar I found it necessary to tape over the pin directly behind the center pin in your picture # 1. Thus leaving the other two that are there, ie center pin and one slightly to left and behind it as oriented in the picture. Honestly I don't know if this will be necessary with the 5400's. Not much trial and error however with just 2 pins. First try it without any tape, it may work. 4. At this point you will need to set your flash up the way you want it. It will have to be manual and then you pick the power setting you desire. More on this later! ON-CAMERA FLASH: If you have been following this thread you already know that sooten, chych, mojo, and others have been seeking a way to use Minolta/Sony wireless control for our main flash. To date this is elusive. So given that fact, we are simply religated to manual control. The optical sensors fire too early with ttl preflash or ADI. Given this is a controlled atmosphere setup its not the end of the world, just desirable! We are all working on it. so..... 5. Set your camera to M and put your main flash on the camera in a bounce position (this eliminates the preflash). I use a OmniQuest 80/20 bounce system with a full white bounce insert. Any bounce could be used. 5a. Initally turn on all the flashes and make sure they all flash when you take a picture. If not go back to 3a. and adjust the pin taping, I'm sure you will easily figure this out. Once they are all flashing in sync... METERING: 6. The absolute best metering situtation here is with a handheld flash meter. Because you are in manual mode the ttl and adi are not functioning properly and it will mean a lot of trial and error with the in camera metering. If you don't have a meter don't buy a high dollar one. I got a Polaris flash/ambiant meter for about 45.00us on Ebay. Works great, nine volt battery lasts a year. 6a. This said, you can however, do a regular metering with the camera using histogram as your set up guide, I always start about iso 100/f5.6/at sync speed. and adjust from there. Also use the on camera flash in bounce mode by itself as a reference point and add one flash at a time and make adjustments to what you see. Once all flashes are working then use the histogram and your screen to determine the setting changes for both the camera and each flash for the desired effect. Let me say at this point, that it may be possible since I am not familar with the flashes you have, to meter in A or P mode without the main flash being in manual mode. Just try it. Keep in mind you can only send one burst of light and the opticals will fire. Actually I think its two but one is not strong enought to fire them. Dumont I think this will work just fine for you. I'm basically doing the same thing except my add-on flashes are auto thyrsitors (Sunpak 433D's, Nikon SB-20's, and two old Metz's. I'm using as many as 6 flashes in this manner. All are in manual with selected power set except my Sigma is the trigger for all with the bounce head on it and I use it in FL TTL mode and as a powerful fill/trigger on camera. The Minolta wireless codes also will set off the sensors so it must be on camera or wired. But as I said, have heart we are all looking for solutions to overcome this last hurtle. I really hope this helps!!! Aaron Edited by georgiaboy - 29 March 2007 at 08:40 |
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Dumont
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Joined: 17 February 2006 Country: United States Location: New Jersey, USA Status: Offline Posts: 1846 |
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Posted: 29 March 2007 at 12:44 |
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Fantastic Aaron, very much appreciated!
It's very clear now, all I need is a few of the standard Hot Shoes with Optical Sensors (like the ones in your link) and I am good to go (except for maybe some trial and error with the pins). As for metering I use "educated" trial and error the old eyeometer that I have since birth, I have two actually that mom and dad gave to me. Lately have needed to use an optical adapter (glasses) but otherwise they work fine LOL. I also use the usb cord with my 7D with direct download of the photos to the computer with preview so it's pretty easy to tell if my setup is good or needs adjustment. Having only one cord attached to the camera (i.e. no OC-1100) will be great. Thanks! I will report back after I buy some Optical Sensors. PS One more question if you don't mind. I think I read in the thread that you could use the optical sensor on only one flash and it will trigger the others if they are PC Sync corded together. I wonder whether I could do the same with my Minolta cords, I would guess it would work too. Not that the Optical Sensors are expensive but I think I will start off with one and see how it works. I don't mind having the flashes connected by wire (I do only product shots so they are fairly close together) as long as they don't have to be tethered to the camera. Edited by Dumont - 29 March 2007 at 13:05 |
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lockny
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Joined: 28 March 2007 Location: Italy Status: Offline Posts: 132 |
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Posted: 29 March 2007 at 14:58 |
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Hi, Aaron, and great post! Could you please post here the links to the places where you bought these things? |
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georgiaboy
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Posted: 29 March 2007 at 18:57 |
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Yeah, you should be able to do it that way. I can't see any reason why that would not work. But remember, we are working in the unknown here and your mileage may vary. :) Aaron |
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Dumont
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Joined: 17 February 2006 Country: United States Location: New Jersey, USA Status: Offline Posts: 1846 |
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Posted: 29 March 2007 at 19:15 |
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Many thanks again Aaron,
I just ordered an optical trigger and it should be here next week. I'll report back after testing it out. Darren |
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georgiaboy
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Posted: 29 March 2007 at 19:58 |
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Hi ya lockny, Welcome to Dyxum!! As for the above items almost all came from Ebay sellers. Most of the items came from individuals with one or two items for sale. But I will give you search criteria...here goes! 1. simply "light stands" you will get hundreds, look for them sold in pairs with bags. remember there are so many so bid low and watch for sellers with high shipping costs. Also get ones at least 7 feet tall. 2."optical sensor" search will turn up a pile of these as well, I like the Sonia version from India. These things are extremely well built. They are available direct from manufacturer also another place is Ebay seller "oec camera"? in Texas, USA. But remember others will work too. 3."flashshoe/umbrella holder" This search will turn up many selections. These attach directly to your light stands and allow you to mount your sensor, umbrells, and flash. They should be the type that you can adjust. Make sure they are metal not plastic. If they don't say...assume they are plastic and don't buy them. 4. "sunpak 433" This will probably turn up 15 or 20 flashes. Don't buy the 433d AF or 433 AF, they do not have manual or A modes, TTL only (except Nikon D version). Note: the D designation on theses flashes means dedicated. It does not matter which camera it's for because your not using the ttl selection anyway! Another alternative is the now famous 383. They are not dedicated and are the exact same flash as the 433 but because of reputation of good quality cost sometimes 3x the 433 price. One really good thing about them is they only have the one center contact pin and don't require any taping. 5. " metz flash" Let me say this very good Z-1 is very old and getting hard to find. I personally suggest just replacing it with another Sunpak 433. I just ordered one to replace mine. 6."background light stand" these are available from "romacamera" and are always a .99 start bid. They do have a buy it now thus the price I paid with shipping. This thing is fabulous for the money. 7. "photographic umbrella" this will also turn up hundreds. Most are about the same quality. Cheap made but, cheap to buy. Best quality Ebay ones come from Amvona. 8.KEH.com in Atlanta, GA. World reknown used equipment dealer. They sell good quality stuff and tend to ship much better quality than their rating. Ugly is the bottom of their rating scale....my two SB-20's looked barely used. Note: You don't have to use this flash. Again the 433's will work as well. Or for that matter any auto thyristor flash with manual power selections. 9. "flash meter" I bought this meter from an individual and you will turn up many with the Ebay search. Don't spend a ton of money. However, make sure it does ambiant and flash metering. When they say digital it is only referring to the readouts on the meter and that has no bearing own your type of camera. I hope this helps you. Happy light writing!!!!!! Aaron |
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lockny
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Joined: 28 March 2007 Location: Italy Status: Offline Posts: 132 |
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Posted: 30 March 2007 at 00:58 |
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Thanks a lot!!!
You are very kind! Happy light writing to you! |
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X-R-M
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Joined: 24 August 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Posts: 667 |
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Posted: 31 March 2007 at 01:50 |
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Great thread.
First I want to thank Aaron for clear explanation of his wireless lighting system (cheap too!!!) and his willingless to share his knowledge with others. BIG THANK YOU AARON!!! I am recently trying to create wireless lighting to my to be mini-studio in my basement, so all information from this thread come very handy. I want to get one of those Indian triggers from e-bay: 1.http://cgi.ebay.com/Optical-Slave-Flash-Trigger-Digital-Wireless_W0QQitemZ330100537435QQcategoryZ30084QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#paymentmethods 2.http://item.express.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ExpressItem&item=190080552780&FROM_MERCHANDISING=1&tr=merch:cvi Does anybody (Aaron?) know which one performs better? From the pictures I would think that #1 supposed perform better because of protruding sensor, but I may be wrong. |
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georgiaboy
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Posted: 31 March 2007 at 03:58 |
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The first is the Sonia. It allows you to remove the sensor and still have a cord syncable hotshoe. I have tried the second ones one time and they worked just fine except can't remove sensor.
BTW X-R-M, YOU'RE VERY WELCOME!!!!! LOL Aaron |
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X-R-M
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Joined: 24 August 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Posts: 667 |
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Posted: 31 March 2007 at 17:58 |
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Thanks Aaron.LOL
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Dumont
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Joined: 17 February 2006 Country: United States Location: New Jersey, USA Status: Offline Posts: 1846 |
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Posted: 03 April 2007 at 02:47 |
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Ok guys and especially Aaron (thanks again) here's my report.
1) I bought 1 OSFT/shoe (link 1 in XRM's post above which was one that Aaron had suggested back in an earlier post) 2) I put a Minolta 5200i flash into an FS1200 (adapts 4 pin newer Maxxum flashes to work on the 5000/7000/9000 older shoe) and placed it on the OSFT/shoe with no pin blocking. 3) The on board flash of my 5D/7D triggers the OSFT. I must say the OSFT does not attach very firmly to the shoe. Also the o/b flash is not a very good trigger, I had more success using a Sigma EF 500 Super on camera. 4) Next, from the accessory port of the 5200i I used a Minolta Cable CD to an OC1100 with a 5400HS mounted, and from that 5400HS's accessory port to another 5400HS. The OSFT triggers them all. So now the camera is un-tethered. The flashes are tethered together but that's not a big deal since they will remain in one place for studio shots. So, for now at least, I only need 1 OSFT. If you do not have the cables yet then it is probably better for you to buy a OSFT/shoe and FS1200 for each flash. But... 5) I also have a Minolta Sync Cord and it's connector fits the same plug where the OSFT goes into the shoe it came with. So I can now place the OSFT anywhere I can point the Sigma flash (on camera - no Sigma wl as a trigger experiments yet - thats later) and being pointed away the Sigma flash will not need to affect the product shots if I do not want it to. 6) Drawbacks sofar (and am not sure if this has to do with the 5200i being the "lead" connector - I don't think it does): The 5200i only syncs with the camera shutter at 1/40s, whereas the 5400HS's sync up to 1/125s I think this is because the HS's are HS's and the 5200i isn't. Also my Sunpak PZ5000AF will freeze up all the flashes after one shot (in cabled only with a OC1100 it worked fine) It's probably not worth the time and effort to troubleshoot the Sunpak and I guess the solution is to sell it along with the 5200i and get another 1 or 2 5400HS's (at bargain prices prices of course, thus the title of the thread, otherwise I should buy more Sigmas) I will advise any other findings. I welcome any questions you may have. Brgds Darren Edited by Dumont - 03 April 2007 at 03:36 |
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georgiaboy
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Posted: 03 April 2007 at 03:05 |
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Well, that's way cool. I am happy for you that the setup is where you are at lease temporarilary happy with it. Untethered camera, is a great advance. I shot some more this weekend with my origial set up and all is ok for me. STILL WAITING FOR CHINESE DIGITAL PREFLASH CANCELING SENSOR!!!!!!
Aaron |
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georgiaboy
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Posted: 08 April 2007 at 05:33 |
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Well recieved the Chinese wonder today. I have, because of family over for Easter , had no time to test it yet. Look for indepth review early next week. Happy Easter all!! Aaron
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