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Used A1 vs A7 RV

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Wētāpunga View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wētāpunga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Used A1 vs A7 RV
    Posted: 25 July 2023 at 04:30
So I'm seriously considering selling my a9 and a7Riii and getting "one camera that does it all".

Option A would be a used A1. MP's would be sufficient for my landscape photography. It's AF improvements should make shooting events easier. It's video tools are better than the a7RV. And it can shoot birds in flight with no shutter black out (and presumably use the bird eye detection).

But it would still cost more, and the only flying birds I can really photography are tākapu (gannets) and I won't have access to the colony until 2024 because of the cyclone damage.

Option B- a new a7RV. MPs are better for landscape and macrophotography. The new AI AF focusing system promises to be stickier with well, almost everything I photograph. The 8-stop IBIS could be really good. And it would be substantially cheaper.

Any thoughts, especially from anyone who has tried Birds-in-flight with the a7Rv? I think I'm tending to the a7RV as it would be the better (and cheaper) option for more of what I photograph.


Edited by Wētāpunga - 25 July 2023 at 06:25
α1- Voigtländer 15/4.5, 110/2.5 M; Zeiss Loxia- 21/2.8, 35/2, 50/2 & 85/2.4, Zeiss Batis- 85/1.8 & 135/2.8; Sony 24-105/4 & 100-400/4.5-5.6; Sigma 70/2.8 M; Sony 135/2.8 STF
 



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addy landzaat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2023 at 08:09
There is rumor of an A9 mark 3 to be released soon. Maybe worth the wait.

Your best option is the A1 if BiF is really important. Realistically the A7r5 is a 8fps camera, after that it becomes a slide show. If you can live with 8fps, O feel the A7r5 is the better option - newer AF system and all round newer camera. And I really like that sensor in my A7r4.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dopol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2023 at 08:37
I have no experience with the A7RV, but I've done lots of BIF shooting with the A1.
It is a miracle to me how it consistently keeps tracking the eyes of fast-flying birds, or even fixing focus on birds when I'm only quickly trying to get the bird in view.
And then there are things like buffer (practically unlimited), video (that I seldomly use), framerate (insane)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nandbytes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2023 at 08:55
I had the A1 and moved to A7IV.
I like to shoot birds regularly. I can pretty much put up with all the "short falls" of A7IV in comparison to A1 i.e. less resolution, blackout etc.
But as Addy mentioned I'm finding 8fps really limiting. I'm missing certain wing positions and poses because the camera sometimes just can't keep up at 8fps. I really wish I had 12-15fps with proper live view shooting.

In terms of AF I find A7IV to be more than adequate but A1 is definitely better at finding subjects and sticking to them especially against cluttered backgrounds.
I don't know much about A7RV since I haven't used it yet.

I like some of the little changes in A7IV like reprogrammable exposure compensation dial which is basically a 4th dial now. Focus breathing compensation is nice too for video.
Also on A7rv you get focus bracketing which I value a lot.
my flickr
A7RV, 20-70G, 70-200GII, Viltrox16mm/1.8, 35/1.4GM, Sammy85/1.4II, 200-600G
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Wētāpunga View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wētāpunga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2023 at 08:58
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

There is rumor of an A9 mark 3 to be released soon. Maybe worth the wait.

Your best option is the A1 if BiF is really important. Realistically the A7r5 is a 8fps camera, after that it becomes a slide show. If you can live with 8fps, O feel the A7r5 is the better option - newer AF system and all round newer camera. And I really like that sensor in my A7r4.


Thanks, I suspect that an a9iii will still lack the video options available in the A1 of a7R V. So waiting is not a gamble I'm keen on. Especially with some leave coming up in August
The goal is to 'have one camera that does it all'. So BIF is important, otherwise the camera can't do it all.

From what I've gathered, the roller-shutter issue, shutter blackout, and slow fps does imply the a7R V isn't going to cut it for BIF. I like it for many other reasons, but I'm afraid I'd regret it if I tried it on rapidly flying tākapu.
α1- Voigtländer 15/4.5, 110/2.5 M; Zeiss Loxia- 21/2.8, 35/2, 50/2 & 85/2.4, Zeiss Batis- 85/1.8 & 135/2.8; Sony 24-105/4 & 100-400/4.5-5.6; Sigma 70/2.8 M; Sony 135/2.8 STF
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Wētāpunga View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wētāpunga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2023 at 09:07
@Dopol

Thanks for that. I was much happier when I got my a9 and photographing flying birds. The a1 (especially with the bird-eye detection) looks like a much more powerful tool.

@nandbytes

Thanks. Agree that the shutter blackout and the low fps of the a7Riii is why I got an a9. It's not that I couldn't get shots of flying birds, but I missed a lot of shots. I'm tending to the view that the a1, is truly the 'camera that can do it all'.

I did like the AI subject recognition in the A7r V, and its focus bracketing looks good also. But I can still do that the 'old school way'.
α1- Voigtländer 15/4.5, 110/2.5 M; Zeiss Loxia- 21/2.8, 35/2, 50/2 & 85/2.4, Zeiss Batis- 85/1.8 & 135/2.8; Sony 24-105/4 & 100-400/4.5-5.6; Sigma 70/2.8 M; Sony 135/2.8 STF
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote nandbytes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2023 at 12:23
The subject recognition seems to be nice but its also becoming a bit complex.
I'd prefer canon style of more consolidated options i.e. one for human, one for animals and may be one for all vehicles.
On sony/nikon you are having to choose between bird, animal, insect, cars, planes, humans etc etc. I don't feel this is the right direction.

A1 on can still track incredibly well even without the added subject recognition modes. While its nice that A7RV can recognise planes and insects its really solving a non-issue imo. For insects more often than not you are better off with manual focussing. For planes good old subject tracking does a fantastic job. Plus planes are fairly predictable subjects, they don't make erratic movement like birds.

Where the subject recognition really matters is for birds, animals and humans. A1 does a good job at picking up the eyes for these subjects.

my flickr
A7RV, 20-70G, 70-200GII, Viltrox16mm/1.8, 35/1.4GM, Sammy85/1.4II, 200-600G
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Post Options Post Options   Quote C_N_RED_AGAIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2023 at 12:25
I have both. The rv is the better all around camera. Its af is better and stickier, its 8 shots of ibis are truly amazing. I was handholding waterfall shots in Canada at 1/8 of a second at 28 mm and getting sharp photos. Never possible before. Focus stacking works well also. Only thing it doesn’t do better than a1 is 30 fps and blackout free. For the money the rv is the run away buy of the two
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nandbytes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2023 at 12:27
Originally posted by C_N_RED_AGAIN C_N_RED_AGAIN wrote:

I was handholding waterfall shots in Canada at 1/8 of a second at 28 mm and getting sharp photos. Never possible before.


It was possible before, just not on sony
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A7RV, 20-70G, 70-200GII, Viltrox16mm/1.8, 35/1.4GM, Sammy85/1.4II, 200-600G
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hezu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2023 at 16:08
For capturing action, α1 is definately The Camera. My experience with α7R V is very limited, but definately it does have a number of features that are missing in α1, for example the more flexible back screen swivel mechanism would be nice, eg. when shooting in portrait orientation on a tripod.

But personally, I think there is also advantages in having multiple camera bodies: for example, it is darn nice to hike around when one camera has a telephoto lens and another one something covering also wider angles (or macro magnifications) and not worry about missing photo opportunities just because you have wrong lens mounted.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wētāpunga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2023 at 22:03
Originally posted by C_N_RED_AGAIN C_N_RED_AGAIN wrote:

I have both. The rv is the better all around camera. Its af is better and stickier, its 8 shots of ibis are truly amazing. I was handholding waterfall shots in Canada at 1/8 of a second at 28 mm and getting sharp photos. Never possible before. Focus stacking works well also. Only thing it doesn’t do better than a1 is 30 fps and blackout free. For the money the rv is the run away buy of the two


Thanks, this experience is valuable.
My main goal is to have one camera that "does it all". I appreciate there are some things the a7Rv does better- the AI focusing for more subjects, the focus bracketing, the IBIS etc.

The issue I'm grappling with is whether it can "do it all". It seems that on many subjects, even if the a1 isn't quite as good as the a7Rv, it still does it far better than my current cameras. So the a1 still ticks all the boxes.

The sticking point seems to be birds in flight. Going back to a camera with shutter blackouts- possibly a mechanical shutter to avoid rolling shutter effects- and a frame rate less than 10 fps, gives me concern. I don't want to regret my choice 12 months later say.
α1- Voigtländer 15/4.5, 110/2.5 M; Zeiss Loxia- 21/2.8, 35/2, 50/2 & 85/2.4, Zeiss Batis- 85/1.8 & 135/2.8; Sony 24-105/4 & 100-400/4.5-5.6; Sigma 70/2.8 M; Sony 135/2.8 STF
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wētāpunga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2023 at 22:08
Originally posted by Hezu Hezu wrote:

...
But personally, I think there is also advantages in having multiple camera bodies: for example, it is darn nice to hike around when one camera has a telephoto lens and another one something covering also wider angles (or macro magnifications) and not worry about missing photo opportunities just because you have wrong lens mounted.


In principle I agree, and that's what I have done on occasion. The a9 with a telephoto for birds/wildlife and the a7Riii for landscapes or macro. The reality is I rarely take two camera with me now as I prefer to travel light. Which afterall, was one of the reasons I switched to the E-mount.
α1- Voigtländer 15/4.5, 110/2.5 M; Zeiss Loxia- 21/2.8, 35/2, 50/2 & 85/2.4, Zeiss Batis- 85/1.8 & 135/2.8; Sony 24-105/4 & 100-400/4.5-5.6; Sigma 70/2.8 M; Sony 135/2.8 STF
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Post Options Post Options   Quote C_N_RED_AGAIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2023 at 22:55
Originally posted by Wētāpunga Wētāpunga wrote:

Originally posted by C_N_RED_AGAIN C_N_RED_AGAIN wrote:

I have both. The rv is the better all around camera. Its af is better and stickier, its 8 shots of ibis are truly amazing. I was handholding waterfall shots in Canada at 1/8 of a second at 28 mm and getting sharp photos. Never possible before. Focus stacking works well also. Only thing it doesn’t do better than a1 is 30 fps and blackout free. For the money the rv is the run away buy of the two


Thanks, this experience is valuable.
My main goal is to have one camera that "does it all". I appreciate there are some things the a7Rv does better- the AI focusing for more subjects, the focus bracketing, the IBIS etc.

The issue I'm grappling with is whether it can "do it all". It seems that on many subjects, even if the a1 isn't quite as good as the a7Rv, it still does it far better than my current cameras. So the a1 still ticks all the boxes.

The sticking point seems to be birds in flight. Going back to a camera with shutter blackouts- possibly a mechanical shutter to avoid rolling shutter effects- and a frame rate less than 10 fps, gives me concern. I don't want to regret my choice 12 months later say.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote C_N_RED_AGAIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2023 at 22:57
actually, I find it tracks birds as good as the a1 maybe even better. Planes also which is what I shoot a lot of. You just don't' get as many shots to pick from as the fps are less. Hope that helps.
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