FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Using external SSD to store photo files

Page  <12
Author
lomitamike View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 23 September 2006
Country: United States
Location: CA.
Status: Offline
Posts: 756
Post Options Post Options   Quote lomitamike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2021 at 21:11
Originally posted by QuietOC QuietOC wrote:

That Sabrent drive looks pretty quick. I would just wonder about reliability. They were the company that came out with >2TB M.2 drives first. The Q stands for quad level cells which is also what my Intel 660p uses. You get a whole lot less flash cells and the drives should be much cheaper for it. These can get much slower as they fill up as they use empty cells as faster cache. Opt for the 4TB model if you plan to use most of the 2TB.

A slower TLC or MLC drive of the same capacity will degrade much less.


Sounds like you know much more about SSD tech than I. So you believe there's a greater chance that the design of the Sabrent SSD will be more prone to early failure?

These are things that need to be considered. But the ability to work with the speed they offer maybe a worthy trade-off for a short life as long as you have good back-up. If it last a couple of years you could probably replace it with a larger cheaper SSD if the pricing trend continues to go in the same direction.
A900, A850, A6000, Canon S95, SAL 70-400, 70-200, 35/1.4, 50/1.4. KM 85D, 28-75D, 17-35D,100macroD. Mino 28/2, 35-70. Rok14/2.8. Many flashes, Phottix Odin. E16-50, 18-200LE, 50/1.8, Rokfish 8mm
 



Back to Top
QuietOC View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 28 February 2015
Country: United States
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Posts: 3515
Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2021 at 22:16
I had a lot of SSD failures back several years ago when prices were more volatile and I bought cheaper brands.

I've been sticking with Intel, Crucial/Micron, and Western Digital drives since then and not had a single failure.
Sony A7RIV NEX-5T HVL-F45RM LA-EA5 Metabones-IV Sigma MC-11 Yongnuo EF-E II TLT ROKR MD-NEX KR-NEX DA-NEX
Minolta Maxxum 600si
Pentax Q7 5-15 15-45/2.8 8.5/1.9 11.5/9 AF-P/Q
Back to Top
Rudolf_K View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: 27 January 2021
Country: Slovakia
Status: Offline
Posts: 24
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rudolf_K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2021 at 02:51
Well, basically, to store your backups or copies (aka called "Cold data"), I am definitely advices some sort of HDD. Cloud, NAS, or RAID1 (HW solution) or copy to copy (not have only one, but two of ) solution.

Otherwise SSD is just like. But those fast SSDs are more flash drives to transfer data, not a back-up storage. Check terms on Google like "Cold data ssd issues / problems" " ssd data retention without power ".

Of course, as personal computer user with tower workstation it is lot of flexibility to use many drives as you want. Also without NAS solution or cloud. I simply do not need access to my data in time. But who needs NAS access from more computers etc., it is a good solution.

Usually I have storage drivers just like:
1. System drive (OS, programs). It is probably the fastest one. But I personally still have SATA drive (I bought a lot Sandisk Extreme PRO drives with good flash memory controller, MLC NAND and it is enough for me. I do not do video, just only photos...)
2. Storage or Data online data. SSD too, "bigger". Usually the newer data. Or work data.
3. Storage drives. HDDs, RAID1 solution. Personally now I plugged it off and sometimes (once to three weeks plugged in and copy older files to store). It can of can not be a RAID1. Or 5 for speed. Now a have for example only two HDDs separatly, one 10TB and other 6TB with a same data copied.
4. And really COLD COLD COLD datas with backups etc. Sometimes plugged via SATA, or HDD docking station via USB 3.0 (or if you can that daaaam expensive Thunderbolt) .

From 2009 I have... ehm, around 15 HDDs. From 640GB (three?) to 2TB (ehm eight? okey one is down, so lucky seven), 3TB (four) and one 10TB and 6TB. Around 1000-1500€ spending. I lost some data around 2013 thanks to damage HDDs, so I go those really sophisticated solution.

It's even more complicated than swapping HDDs. The whole system I typically use newer ones more often and as they start to age, they go "COLD COLD from point three to four" and create one or two backups.

Yeap, and since 2013 I only use Toshiba hard drives.

Simply redundancy is a only key to do not lost any data.
Back to Top
lomitamike View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 23 September 2006
Country: United States
Location: CA.
Status: Offline
Posts: 756
Post Options Post Options   Quote lomitamike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2021 at 18:26
Originally posted by QuietOC QuietOC wrote:

I had a lot of SSD failures back several years ago when prices were more volatile and I bought cheaper brands.

I've been sticking with Intel, Crucial/Micron, and Western Digital drives since then and not had a single failure.


After doing a little reading I see your point. It's so hard to decipher individual reviews on the net, what's credible what's just an angry review, how credible is the persons opinion based on their experience and knowledge?

Reading this https://www.ryadel.com/en/sabrent-ssd-review-rocket-nvme-pcie-m2-2280/ cast doubt about how reliable they could be.

Going with an internal SSD with an enclosure of your choice was not even a consideration before your suggestion. I did not even know this was an option. I'm starting to see the advantages of choosing this option. What are the disadvantages if any with this option?
A900, A850, A6000, Canon S95, SAL 70-400, 70-200, 35/1.4, 50/1.4. KM 85D, 28-75D, 17-35D,100macroD. Mino 28/2, 35-70. Rok14/2.8. Many flashes, Phottix Odin. E16-50, 18-200LE, 50/1.8, Rokfish 8mm
Back to Top
butangmucat View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 23 September 2017
Country: United States
Location: Saratoga Spring
Status: Offline
Posts: 151
Post Options Post Options   Quote butangmucat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 December 2021 at 09:03
I used to intern at a NAND flash manufacturer a few years ago, and learned there that flash storage should not really be trusted for long-term storage. The (oversimplified) reason is that NAND flash are banks of capacitors, and data is stored by charge these capacitors to different charge levels. The problem is that the electrical charge trapped in these capacitor cells will leak over time, and when too much of them have leaked, your data is gone. This can happen between a few months and a few years, depending on the exact technology the NAND chip has used.

With that being said, I did use external SSDs that I built myself to store project files for my photography and videography courses in my undergrad. I used external SSDs to store project files that I would bring to the studio workstations (more powerful and have a better suit of software, but gets wiped upon reboot) to edit, and at the end of each semester I would archive the products and intermediate projects that I deem as worthy (i.e. ones with more than just trivial pre-print edits) of archiving onto spinning rust.

All raw (both in terms of RAW files for photography and original video footage that were copied from the camera) footage always gets stored onto spinning rust first when I am back from a shoot, no matter whether it is for my classes back then or for my personal works now. For my photography courses, I would also use DxO PhotoLab (my RAW converter of choice) to develop the RAW files and export them as either PSD or TIFF files, before transferring them onto the external SSDs for bringing into the studio.

In short, external SSDs are handy as a "ferry" medium, but should not be trusted for long-term storage.

Finally, I built my own external SSDs from reputable enclosures (such as StarTech and Silverstone) and drives that were taken out when I upgraded my own laptop over the years. They are usually moderately worn (still 95%+ healthy in SMART) and are of reputable brands and SKUs (Samsung 845DC EVO, Crucial M550, etc.). Never trust an off-brand SSD, and my policy has been always select SSDs from NAND flash vendors (SanDisk/WD, Toshiba/Kioxia, Intel, Micron/Crucial, Samsung, SK Hynix, and YMTC, in no specific order).

As for the Lightroom catalog issues, I have stopped using Lightroom a long time ago due how the catalog throws up if the drive letter (on Windows) changes. I use DxO PhotoLab now, which stores edits in sidecar files in the same directory as the source images. Back in photography classes, the use of Lightroom is also discouraged with the same reason, and the ones have chosen to edit files on studio workstations are suggested to use Adobe Bridge (and its ACR integration) as an alternative.

Edited by butangmucat - 23 December 2021 at 09:12
Back to Top
lomitamike View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 23 September 2006
Country: United States
Location: CA.
Status: Offline
Posts: 756
Post Options Post Options   Quote lomitamike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2021 at 00:33
Update;

Picked up an OWC Envoy Express TB3 enclosure and the Intel 660P 2TB SSD.
4TB was too much for my budget.

So once I figure out how to transfer all my photos and videos and set them up to work with time machine I and my iMac will be happy.

Total size of photo and video library is just over 1TB . Hopefully in a few of years a 4TB SSD will be more affordable.

Thanks for all suggestions.
Mike
A900, A850, A6000, Canon S95, SAL 70-400, 70-200, 35/1.4, 50/1.4. KM 85D, 28-75D, 17-35D,100macroD. Mino 28/2, 35-70. Rok14/2.8. Many flashes, Phottix Odin. E16-50, 18-200LE, 50/1.8, Rokfish 8mm
 



Back to Top
butangmucat View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 23 September 2017
Country: United States
Location: Saratoga Spring
Status: Offline
Posts: 151
Post Options Post Options   Quote butangmucat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2021 at 03:15
IIRC 660p is QLC NAND, which leaks faster than TLC NAND (see my post above). So definitely not ideal as an archival medium.
Back to Top
keith_h View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 22 May 2006
Country: Australia
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Posts: 3124
Post Options Post Options   Quote keith_h Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2021 at 05:13
I have a Synology NAS with about 12TB storage in a RAID configuration where I store images. Catalogs and thumbs are on the local machine which has M.2 SSD and a regular SSD (application settings - local scratch drive).

I'm using rotating media on the NAS rather than SSD, but it's perfectly fine for my application for stills and video. Data is backed up to a second NAS from time to time, also with rotating media. Drives are replaced every five years at the latest whether they show signs of wear or not.

A different class of SSD is required if you plan to use it for primary storage for the reasons butangmucat stated (reliability mostly). And they are not inexpensive. For home, rotating storage still provides good bang for buck, all things considered.



https://www.kingston.com/us/ssd/enterprise-versus-client-ssd

Edited by keith_h - 28 December 2021 at 05:26
Back to Top
lomitamike View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 23 September 2006
Country: United States
Location: CA.
Status: Offline
Posts: 756
Post Options Post Options   Quote lomitamike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2021 at 05:25
Originally posted by butangmucat butangmucat wrote:

IIRC 660p is QLC NAND, which leaks faster than TLC NAND (see my post above). So definitely not ideal as an archival medium.


Agreed. This SSD will hold the libraries to reference and work.

I have two (2) 4TB HDDs as time machines back-up this external SSD along with the internal iMac SSD.

I'm sure there are other ways to configure a workstation more logically then what I have put together. I just needed to make a move to free-up space on my iMac SDD within a certain budget. The 2TB internal SSD was at 1.75TBs.

If I get 3 years out of 660p I'll be happy. At that point we'll see what's available.

Edited by lomitamike - 06 January 2022 at 15:22
A900, A850, A6000, Canon S95, SAL 70-400, 70-200, 35/1.4, 50/1.4. KM 85D, 28-75D, 17-35D,100macroD. Mino 28/2, 35-70. Rok14/2.8. Many flashes, Phottix Odin. E16-50, 18-200LE, 50/1.8, Rokfish 8mm
Back to Top
4paul View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 26 July 2011
Country: United States
Location: St Petersburg
Status: Offline
Posts: 1536
Post Options Post Options   Quote 4paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2022 at 20:27
Agree with what you did and previous comments, I use a second internal drive as the Media drive, then offload backups onto portable SSD (temp) or naked HDD in a dual dock (COLD with one taken to a remote location).

I never used Lightroom or Adobe because of "catalog" issues, I too use DxO for RAW which doesn't do catalogs, and FastStone Image Viewer for viewing/tagging, I manually move folders in the OS, and these softwares keep sidecar files in the same folder, except FastStone annoyingly keeps tag info in a central database in a user directory.

keith_h you had quite the horror story! Yeah no matter how "professional" electronics may be, if the capacitors are dry it ain't gonna turn back on!... Or SSDs which have a physical layer that is intentionally weak ... or HDDs that spin on tiny bearings...
There is a difference between a shaky or out-of-focus photograph and a snapshot of clouds and fog banks. - Schrödinger
Back to Top
QuietOC View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 28 February 2015
Country: United States
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Posts: 3515
Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2022 at 21:03
My enterprise class MLC Micron 9100 Pro lost its partitions once. It has been fine since then. It is definitely not designed for single user use. I haven't had any problems with the QLC Intel 660p for the past 2.5 years.
Sony A7RIV NEX-5T HVL-F45RM LA-EA5 Metabones-IV Sigma MC-11 Yongnuo EF-E II TLT ROKR MD-NEX KR-NEX DA-NEX
Minolta Maxxum 600si
Pentax Q7 5-15 15-45/2.8 8.5/1.9 11.5/9 AF-P/Q
Back to Top
Dyxum main page >  Forum Home > Equipment forums > Digital Darkroom Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.

Monitor calibration strip

Dyxum.com - Home of the alpha system photographer

In memory of Cameron Hill - brettania

Feel free to contact us if needed.