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very unprofessinal wedding email

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4paul View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 4paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: very unprofessinal wedding email
    Posted: 01 August 2017 at 23:18
So there's a thread with a bad wedding photog and his horrible emails that popped up on petapixel:

https://petapixel.com/2017/07/31/time-said-f-no-hotels-advertising-opportunity/#disqus_thread

The comments are about along the lines of my reaction, wondering what you all think about the article, before you read the comments, and after you read the comments.

I was appalled by the guy when I read it the first time, after reading the comments I know he is a monumental idiot ...

I haven't made it all the way through the comments, but I wonder what you think of the Trade for Services idea; I personally think the guy was douche-y for asking for "comp" (COMPlimentary = free) rooms instead of payment. His first email should have specified his usual fee, and added a sentence about "since I like shooting weddings at Sheraton hotels I might be inclined to reduce the fee", but even then I think it is morally wrong - the whole point of the article and comments in favor of the article is that photographers are disrespected and don't get paid ... so asking for a free room reinforces the idea that photographers don't want to be paid, just give them a beer and a hotel room and they will shut up.

Also, legalistically, I wonder if shooting wedding photos on Sheraton property is legal ... I don't want to open that can of worms, but pro wedding photogs what do you think? Couldn't Sheraton sue THE PHOTOGRAPHER for taking pictures "for profit" on their private property without sharing revenue?

I don't like this person or his attitude ... the only thing I can hope is that the whole thing is a fabrication by petapixel to get people to click on their silly website ....
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sybersitizen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2017 at 23:58
I can't spend a lot of time reading such things, but this part jumped out at me:

'Obviously, the first thing any photographer is going to notice when looking at this ad is the lack of a photo credit. Now, this was disturbing for a couple reasons, the first being that it’s 2016 and everyone should know by now you give a photographer credit for their work, especially a large business such as Sheraton!'

I don't know what magazines that guy reads, but the photos I see in advertisements almost never include a photographer credit. The idea is that somebody (hopefully) got paid for the use of the photo and remained anonymous.

So ... it seems to me that both the photographer and the Sheraton representative were trying to function out of their depth, and it's a good thing that it didn't work out.

Edited by sybersitizen - 02 August 2017 at 00:05
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kefkafloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kefkafloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2017 at 00:52
I've sold photos for books and magazines. I'll get credit in books, but for magazine advertisements? Nope. If the image is used on a cover or as part of a story, I'd get credit for that usually.

Edited by kefkafloyd - 02 August 2017 at 00:58
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MarsCS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2017 at 01:21
I am not a professional photographer, but I find a few issues with this.

Is it not a copyright violation to use a photographers photos for commercial purposes regardless of resolution without a photographers permission?
Don't a wedding photographers photos still fall under his/her copyright unless the contract with the couple states otherwise?
Don't most photographers require compensation for the commercial use of their photos?
Shouldn't anyone, including interns, directors of some sort, etc.. working on advertising for a large corporation know this?

    I understand his frustration/anger at this as she seemed to be very deliberate attempt at using his photos without compensating him. I too have never seen credits in a magazine advertisement. She should have just asked the women who's wedding he photographed what the name of the photographer was and contacted him directly. I do believe his bashing Sheraton for this was childish and unprofessional. If he posted it as 'watch out for this' type of thing without mentioning the Sheraton it might have been acceptable.
    I probably would have commented on the above, along with giving the rate to use the image, in the first email. If she didn't want the photos I would have sent back an reminding her of copyright. Then I would have sent an email to someone higher up at Sheraton, if possible, to to advise of the issue and that she needs some more training.   
     It would make it very difficult for wedding photographers if venues required compensation from them. I would think that a venue that held weddings was giving defacto authorization.


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whiteheat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote whiteheat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2017 at 01:21
That wedding photographer is not very up to speed on professional writing.

His email to the Hilton, should have been along the lines of;

I usually charge $X dollars for Y images (or what ever system he uses) but in your case I'm amenable to some discounted room rates (or similar). Therefore the choice is yours, pay me $X or give me Y amount of days to stay at your hotel. Then I'll authorise you to use my images, etc.

All the rest of his missive is just superfluous wind and noise, a pointless waste of time.
Nothing is as it first appears.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ricardovaste Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2017 at 11:16
I read the whole thing... It reeks of a lack of maturity in several ways. Just look at the language in general.

It also alludes to other issues within the wedding industry (nothing to do with what he's meaning to write about), but it's not worth wasting my finger tips on that.

I used to follow someone on twitter who shared petapixel articles all the time. I quickly discovered they're click bait, sensationalist and mostly just their to serve bored and disgruntled photographers. I avoid it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pakodominguez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2017 at 13:31
Originally posted by whiteheat whiteheat wrote:

That wedding photographer is not very up to speed on professional writing.

Well, you know, they are "cool" in California
;-)

Just a joke, Ray (sybersitizen)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pakodominguez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2017 at 13:57
Originally posted by 4paul 4paul wrote:

So there's a thread with a bad wedding photog and his horrible emails that popped up on petapixel:

https://petapixel.com/2017/07/31/time-said-f-no-hotels-advertising-opportunity/#disqus_thread
typical Petapixel... I prefer even rumor's sites than them.
Originally posted by 4paul 4paul wrote:


I haven't made it all the way through the comments, but I wonder what you think of the Trade for Services idea; I personally think the guy was douche-y for asking for "comp" (COMPlimentary = free) rooms instead of payment. His first email should have specified his usual fee,


I agree with you. Money or exchange is fine -I've done many jobs for restaurants (or food magazines) were I was paid with gift cards. It's somehow the norm, specially on the restaurant and hospitality industries (all those "travel photographers" on instagram are just getting freebies, no real money)
Originally posted by 4paul 4paul wrote:


Also, legalistically, I wonder if shooting wedding photos on Sheraton property is legal ... I don't want to open that can of worms, but pro wedding photogs what do you think? Couldn't Sheraton sue THE PHOTOGRAPHER for taking pictures "for profit" on their private property without sharing revenue?

I guess that the wedding was at that Sheraton, so part of the contract with the Bride/groom must state property copyright and permits for commercial and/or non commercial use. Venues ask for photographer's information, specially our insurance, that must be able to cover few million dollars in case of incidents.
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pakodominguez View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pakodominguez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2017 at 14:09
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:


So ... it seems to me that both the photographer and the Sheraton representative were trying to function out of their depth, and it's a good thing that it didn't work out.

What is missing here is the bride/groom position. Because , unless stated differently on the photographer's service contract, Photographer can not use those photos for commercial purposes (personal and/or editorial only). So, if he's trying to cut a deal with the Sheraton is because he already have an accord with the "models"
The photographer is asking for free rooms for them AND their friendly bride-groom-client, Now, if they are really friendly, I believe they already told the photographer they were giving the low resolution files to the Sheraton for the add's mock-up, so he was waiting for the Sheraton's call.
Or bride, groom, photographer and families are all disappointed they will miss couple of days at the hotel so, "let's write something about it on my blog".
I hate people to use social media to badmouth someone else (individual or business) just because they could't get what they think they deserve.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ricardovaste Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2017 at 14:38
Originally posted by pakodominguez pakodominguez wrote:

Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:


So ... it seems to me that both the photographer and the Sheraton representative were trying to function out of their depth, and it's a good thing that it didn't work out.

What is missing here is the bride/groom position. Because , unless stated differently on the photographer's service contract, Photographer can not use those photos for commercial purposes (personal and/or editorial only). So, if he's trying to cut a deal with the Sheraton is because he already have an accord with the "models"



Just to add: in the UK the law automatically gives the copyright to the creater of the work, and unless this is sold within the contract, it remains with them. It is standard for the creater to maintain legal ownership of their work, and from those I know in the US, it is the same over there.

(Not disagreeing, as I find the whole 'article' a farce. But in this case what the B&G want is likely already agreed within the contract with the photographer)
I photograph the moments in people's lives that mean the most to them: Richard Harris Photography
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pakodominguez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2017 at 14:43
Originally posted by ricardovaste ricardovaste wrote:


Just to add: in the UK the law automatically gives the copyright to the creater of the work, and unless this is sold within the contract, it remains with them. It is standard for the creater to maintain legal ownership of their work, and from those I know in the US, it is the same over there.

(Not disagreeing, as I find the whole 'article' a farce. But in this case what the B&G want is likely already agreed within the contract with the photographer)

Copyright belong to the photographer, but the photos can not be used commercially (Like the brochure/flyer in question) without the proper model release(s)
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sybersitizen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2017 at 16:43
Originally posted by pakodominguez pakodominguez wrote:

Originally posted by whiteheat whiteheat wrote:

That wedding photographer is not very up to speed on professional writing.

Well, you know, they are "cool" in California
;-)

Just a joke, Ray (sybersitizen)

I used to write and photograph professionally for a while, which was pretty cool. I think I was better at the writing because I always had time to correct errors. Never shot weddings, though - luckily for any folks getting married around here. ;)
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4paul View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 4paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2017 at 13:40
Hopefully we all got a laugh out of this! ... although one bad apple makes us all look bad.
And reading clickbait articles isn't usually productive ....
There is a difference between a shaky or out-of-focus photograph and a snapshot of clouds and fog banks. - Schrödinger
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Post Options Post Options   Quote momech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2017 at 15:02
There's a news story here in Texas about a wedding photographer that got into a dispute with a couple she'd photographed; a final charge or $125 for their wedding album.
They proceeded to bad mouth her on social media for months, causing her loss of business, damaging her reputation, etc.
A jury just awarded her over a million dollars. And I don't think that covers legal fees and court costs.
Moral: don't    the wedding photog.
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
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