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Why is shortest possible shutter speed 30s?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote neilt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2022 at 10:32
Originally posted by XKAES XKAES wrote:

I don't know if any digital cameras have this, but on some earlier cameras there was a T setting. Different from B, you press the release once and the shutter opens. Press it again -- whether 1 second or 1 day later -- to close the shutter.


I'm not aware of anything made in the last forty or so years having a "T" setting .
I think that's only an option with mechanical shutters , not electronically controlled ones .

So not on autofocus film or digital cameras .
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bob J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2022 at 13:18
I seem to remember that part of the reason for not having really long exposure options on an electronic shutter were that on some cameras that had up to 2 minutes on auto you could find yourself having to wait a long time between shots when loading a film (when typically the lens cap might be on).

I think later cameras tended to unlink the meter for those first loading shots, while others metered off the film (so if the exposure was long you could just point the camera towards light). Reciprocity failure would also have been a reason for losing the slower speeds though.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Snegren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2022 at 13:46
Originally posted by neilt3 neilt3 wrote:

Originally posted by XKAES XKAES wrote:

I don't know if any digital cameras have this, but on some earlier cameras there was a T setting. Different from B, you press the release once and the shutter opens. Press it again -- whether 1 second or 1 day later -- to close the shutter.


I'm not aware of anything made in the last forty or so years having a "T" setting .
I think that's only an option with mechanical shutters , not electronically controlled ones .

So not on autofocus film or digital cameras .

The only shutters I have seen that can be toggled are from 1930s folding cameras (very practical when you want to use such lenses on digital).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hobgoblin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2022 at 14:34
Originally posted by Tricky01 Tricky01 wrote:

Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Originally posted by Phil Wood Phil Wood wrote:


Most wired remotes can lock - so you simply push and lock and walk away if you want, coming back to unlock and end the exposure
Yep.
Yeah, I have one of these, but it's ridiculous in this day and age to need to carry an extra piece of hardware when it could be easily made redundant by firmware/software. 2 or 10 second timer serve same purpose as need for a cable release, why not also longer length shutters. At least another few stops beyond 30s


Its not really redundant though. A cable release is extremely useful in lots of circumstances and its not exactly bulky or heavy.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote XKAES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2022 at 14:52
Originally posted by neilt3 neilt3 wrote:


I'm not aware of anything made in the last forty or so years having a "T" setting .
I think that's only an option with mechanical shutters , not electronically controlled ones .


Just because you're not aware of cameras -- such as the Seagull DF-1000A -- doesn't mean they don't exist.

The Seagull DF-1000A is a 35mm SLR having an electronic, focal-plane shutter with speeds from 1/1,000 to 1 second PLUS B AND T settings. And, yes, it was made in this century!

So digital cameras could put a T setting on their cameras if they chose to.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2022 at 15:58
My Fuji GW690, a.k.a. Texas Leica, also has a T-setting. The mark III version was introduced in 1992, that is within 40 year. Much more interesting camera then the Seagull But it has a mechanical shutter.

There is no reason to assume a T-setting couldn't be done with an electronic shutter. But I can understand why most camera makers did not implement it as when the battery runs out with the shutter open it might be a problem.

And, people complain to no end about the T-mode - there is that.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2022 at 16:46
Originally posted by Snegren Snegren wrote:


The only shutters I have seen that can be toggled are from 1930s folding cameras (very practical when you want to use such lenses on digital).

One or two of the Zeiss folding cameras I used had one. Nowadays you're lucky to get a 'B'.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote XKAES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2022 at 16:46
A T shutter setting is no more of a problem for a dead battery than the B setting is.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2022 at 16:47
Originally posted by XKAES XKAES wrote:

A T shutter setting is no more of a problem for a dead battery than the B setting is.

Yes, I do remember the time when cameras didn't have batteries.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Michael Johansson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2022 at 16:54
This thread is named "Why is shortest possible shutter speed 30s?". Shouldn´t it be ...longest...?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tricky01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2022 at 17:09
Originally posted by Hobgoblin Hobgoblin wrote:

Its not really redundant though. A cable release is extremely useful in lots of circumstances and its not exactly bulky or heavy.
I bet "It's not exactly bulky or heavy" has put paid to a lot of innovation. Fortunately we don't have to carry separate phones/music players/portable cameras because not everyone listened to that kind of thinking.

I know there will be some times when a cable release is still useful (albeit probably already present in Sony's Imaging Edge app) but not sure it's justification for keeping the max shutter speed limited to 30s.

Maybe Addy hits the nail on the head here, though surely the same challenge is present with bulb on a cable release:
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

I can understand why most camera makers did not implement it as when the battery runs out with the shutter open it might be a problem.



Originally posted by Michael Johansson Michael Johansson wrote:

This thread is named "Why is shortest possible shutter speed 30s?". Shouldn´t it be ...longest...?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2022 at 19:01
Originally posted by XKAES XKAES wrote:

A T shutter setting is no more of a problem for a dead battery than the B setting is.
Well, I said "might" and it depends how it is implemented.

Let me explain. If the normal position of the shutter is closed, the shutter needs to be kept open by force, draining the battery. That is a problem. You might say the battery also drains with the B position, however, if you no longer push the button, the shutter automatically closes - with T no such situation - you can put it in the bag with the shutter open.

One can of course design a shutter that can be set open and closed, I can imagine some design limitations to that. You need to force close the shutter and I doubt it was possible to do this quickly enough for fast shutter times.

These are things I can think about, maybe there are more difficulties. Also, by then, the standard was B not T - so, why take the risk and just keep the market standard and only offer B.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote XKAES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2022 at 21:16
With an electronic shutter if you use B and the battery dies while the shutter is still being help open (with a finger or a cable release) is no difference than with T when the shutter is opened with a press of the button (or cable release).
The shutter is open and the battery dies (which would only happen with long exposures, of course).
It makes no difference to the camera if T or B is being used -- the shutter is open and the battery dies. Releasing your finger in B mode makes no difference.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2022 at 22:03
Originally posted by XKAES XKAES wrote:

With an electronic shutter if you use B and the battery dies while the shutter is still being help open (with a finger or a cable release) is no difference than with T when the shutter is opened with a press of the button (or cable release).
The shutter is open and the battery dies (which would only happen with long exposures, of course).
It makes no difference to the camera if T or B is being used -- the shutter is open and the battery dies. Releasing your finger in B mode makes no difference.
Yes, however the chance of that happening is smaller then with the B setting then with the T setting. Like I said. And B already was the standard. Like I said. Like Johan Cruijf said: if you see it, you see it
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