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Wide vs Telephoto Macro

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Hezu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hezu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wide vs Telephoto Macro
    Posted: 30 June 2020 at 12:55
Yesterday I found a cooperative longhorn beetle (the exact species being Anastrangalia sanguinolenta if I'm not mistaken) and thus had possibility to take macro shots with both wide-angle and telephoto lenses...

1. Wide

α7R III + LAOWA 15 mm F4 Wide Macro @ 15 mm, f/?, 1/200 s, ISO 500

2. Telephoto

α99 II + Sigma EX 150 mm 1:2.8 Macro DG HSM @ 150 mm, f/10, 1/250 s, ISO 2000
 



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pegelli View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pegelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2020 at 13:22
Nice shots, both. Great demo of the difference in perspective and background rendering between the two fields of view. I'm amazed the bug in the 15 mm shot didn't fly away, you must have been pretty close.
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angora View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote angora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2020 at 13:30
lovely, Heikki, and a very handsome beastie! while #2 appears to be sharper, I envy you for that 15mm Laowa! can't wait to see more!
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skm.sa100 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote skm.sa100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2020 at 15:00
One pretty big issue with a standard 70mm to 105mm macro is the super shallow DOF.

Do you find the 15mm to be useful in getting better DOF for bugs?
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pegelli View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pegelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2020 at 15:50
Originally posted by skm.sa100 skm.sa100 wrote:

One pretty big issue with a standard 70mm to 105mm macro is the super shallow DOF.

Do you find the 15mm to be useful in getting better DOF for bugs?


I don't think it works that way Sashi. DOF is only a function of aperture and magnification. So if you have the bug 1:1 with both lenses (150 and 15 mm) the dof at f8 is 8 mm. Only difference is that with the 15 mm you're at 6 cm while with the 150 mm you're at 60 cm. Only the 15 mm has much more background (at a lower magnification) so you seem to be able to see more definition in there.
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Miranda F View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2020 at 16:08
I find the Samyang 12mm f2 seems to give a good choice of DOF and background blur. Sometimes I quite like to see what the background looks like.
Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A58, Nex-6, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras . . .
 



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pegelli View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pegelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2020 at 16:28
Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

I find the Samyang 12mm f2 seems to give a good choice of DOF and background blur. Sometimes I quite like to see what the background looks like.
I agree Anthony, in Heikki's examples the first is a bug in nature while the second is a bug on a flower. Quite a different character between the two where the second is more "documentary" than the first.
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Kilkry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kilkry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2020 at 18:28
Nice comparison; on my uncalibrated monitor the second image has a greenish cast. Also, I've always liked wide macro shots.
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Hezu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hezu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2020 at 12:46
Originally posted by Kilkry Kilkry wrote:

Nice comparison; on my uncalibrated monitor the second image has a greenish cast.
Hmm, my uncalibrated (and not so wide gamut) laptop display does not seem to show any hints of green in the non-green areas, although green is certainly a dominant colour in that photo.
Originally posted by Kilkry Kilkry wrote:

Also, I've always liked wide macro shots.
Good. I do also find wide macros interesting, although certainly far more challenging to take than macro photos with longer focal lenths since you have to get close to the subject. And with a living being as the subject there is a fair chance that it wants to flee when you push a lens close and then at times the lens may also shadow the subject.
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skm.sa100 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote skm.sa100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2020 at 18:45
Originally posted by pegelli pegelli wrote:

Originally posted by skm.sa100 skm.sa100 wrote:

One pretty big issue with a standard 70mm to 105mm macro is the super shallow DOF.

Do you find the 15mm to be useful in getting better DOF for bugs?


I don't think it works that way Sashi. DOF is only a function of aperture and magnification. So if you have the bug 1:1 with both lenses (150 and 15 mm) the dof at f8 is 8 mm. Only difference is that with the 15 mm you're at 6 cm while with the 150 mm you're at 60 cm. Only the 15 mm has much more background (at a lower magnification) so you seem to be able to see more definition in there.


Didn't know that! Since UWAs give enormous DOF and teles give small DOF, I thought the longer we go the narrower the DOF gets.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kilkry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2020 at 19:59
Originally posted by Hezu Hezu wrote:

Good. I do also find wide macros interesting, although certainly far more challenging to take than macro photos with longer focal lenths since you have to get close to the subject. And with a living being as the subject there is a fair chance that it wants to flee when you push a lens close and then at times the lens may also shadow the subject.


Indeed and fair to point out. Most lovely photos I've seen from this lens have portrayed flowers though.


Originally posted by skm.sa100 skm.sa100 wrote:

Originally posted by pegelli pegelli wrote:

Originally posted by skm.sa100 skm.sa100 wrote:

One pretty big issue with a standard 70mm to 105mm macro is the super shallow DOF.

Do you find the 15mm to be useful in getting better DOF for bugs?


I don't think it works that way Sashi. DOF is only a function of aperture and magnification. So if you have the bug 1:1 with both lenses (150 and 15 mm) the dof at f8 is 8 mm. Only difference is that with the 15 mm you're at 6 cm while with the 150 mm you're at 60 cm. Only the 15 mm has much more background (at a lower magnification) so you seem to be able to see more definition in there.


Didn't know that! Since UWAs give enormous DOF and teles give small DOF, I thought the longer we go the narrower the DOF gets.


I admit that's kinda what I've always assumed as well. The B&H macro guide mentions it in passing:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/buying-guide/macro-lens ...though https://www.techradar.com/how-to/photography-video-capture/cameras/what-is-depth-of-field-how-aperture-focal-length-and-focus-control-sharpness-1320959 says:

" A 200mm lens focused at 12ft will have a wafer-thin depth of field compared to a 20mm lens focused at 12ft.

However, if the subject occupies the same proportion of the frame, the depth of field (the area that appears sharp) is essentially the same whether you're shooting with a wide-angle lens or a telephoto!

You would, of course, have to move closer with a wide lens or further away with a telephoto lens to maintain the same subject size."

So for the same max repro ratio it's all about the distance.

Edited by Kilkry - 03 July 2020 at 16:34
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