Wireless Flash F58AM on Maxxum 9

rovhazman wrote: I can tell you that there are no problem when using Sony F56AM connected to the hotshoe, so I believe the output is fine (although it can be that the PW has smaller range of trigger voltage).

There is no voltage "output" from the camera as far as we only talk about firing a flash.

It is the flash, which will apply a certain trigger voltage level on pin "F1" against ground ("F0").

In the old times, this voltage could be as high as 1000V, however, connecting such a flash to a modern camera's hotshoe would fry the camera. The PC flash port of all Minolta, Konica Minolta and Sony SLRs is designed to withstand 400V DC or AC, whereas the hotshoe is designed to withstand between 5.0 to 6.0V maximum. Therefore the flash's trigger voltage should remain below 4.5V to avoid any damage.

All the camera will do in order to fire a flash is short pins "F1" and "F0". The trigger voltage will immediately drop downto near 0V and this is what will be detected by the flash and trigger it. Originally, the shortage was achieved by a switch contact in the shutter (for example the 9000 AF still featured such a switch), however, today, with rear curtain sync etc. the camera will use a transistor, thyristor or triac to achieve the same effect. While this has some advantages, there are also some subtle differences which can become disadvantages if not taken into account in the design of third-party equipment:

- Depending on the design of the trigger circuit in the camera, this will no longer work independent of the trigger voltage's polarity.

- Depending on the design of the trigger circuit in the camera and the current provided by the flash, the voltage may not drop to 0.0V. Instead, a small voltage level (usually well below 0.7V) will remain on even during the short. Sometimes, this is too much for the flash to detect the short circuit. Some servo triggers will exhibit this problem, but often, they can be modified to work reliable. Camera circuits cannot be modified, but they don't normally exhibit this problem unless the flash provides dangerously high currents (dozens of milliamperes) - such flashes should be ruled out anyway for safety reasons.

- The camera's "outer" trigger transistor/thyristor/triac is always fed by the flash's trigger voltage. If the flash's trigger voltage becomes too low, the semiconductor may work outside of its minimum supply voltage range, so that it won't be able to switch reliably any more, resulting in a "weak" short or no short at all. While this does not happen in conjunction with real flashes (as they have high enough trigger voltages), some third party accessories provide too low trigger voltages. In these cases, it may help to slightly raise the trigger voltage by 0.5V - 1.5V, for example, by adding a 1.5V battery in series.

- Apparently, some low-end cameras will first try to communicate with a flash via the data lines ("F2" and "F3") and simply won't attempt to fire the flash unless they detect a compatible flash. This is why they won't work with 3rd party equipment which just provides the trigger voltage without emulating some kind of dedicated flash. The Dynax 9, of course, is not among this kind of cameras, and it will attempt to trigger whatever may be connected to the hotshoe - even if no compatible flash was detected.

Greetings,

Matthias

Thanks for the very detailed explanation, although the Sony's implementation sounds weird. I tried it and the flash fired when i forced the shutter speed above 1/60s. Thanks again.

Hi, just joined to ask a very similar question. Apologies for not seeing this first. Just got a Dynax 9 [which has had the "sticky" grip replaced with poly carbon one, brilliant].
My Sony equivalent to Minolta flashes, have a setting for optical or wireless flash triggering [rather than modern Radio flash triggering] and work fine in this mode with my Sony A9 - A7R iii but I've just got a Dynax 9 and was surprised in all those articles that criticise the "pop up flash" on a "professional" camera that no mention is made of the pop up triggering wirelessly other flashes.
A real "professional" feature. However I have no older flashes now and was convinced I could fire the modern ones in the optic flash triggering mode. No luck yet ! Anyone dadt enough to try wireless flash on a vintage film camera this way....      

The Hasselblad H-system camera's also have a pop-up flash for that same reason. I didn't know, but I watched a video by Analog Insights and they mentioned it.

minolta4me_kevin wrote: OK.... I have taken that advise and bought a 5400HS flash.

Yes, that supports the old film protocol.

Just to try this feature, I would ,love to get it to work with the Sony flashes set to the old Minolta protocols for wireless [optical not radio] flash, which should work ?

There have been different generations of protocol within the optical wireless system, and I'm pretty sure Sony's flashes abandoned support for film cameras even before the radio protocol was introduced.

The only Sony models I'd consider for that would be the HVL-F36AM and HVL-F56AM because they're essentially identical to the Minolta 3600HS(D) and 5600HS(D), which support both the film protocol and the early digital protocol - so you might as well get the Minoltas if they cost less. Other Sony models would be a guessing game.

Nope - I hope the built in pop up flash can do it's job of triggering at least the 5400HS, in flash ratio mode as well. But also the pop up could possibly trigger Sony flash, if they are set into "old" wireless mode, they all have that....

My experience is that none of the units whose name ends in RM will work with the original Minolta protocol. Those ending with M or AM do work but the most recent ones need to be positioned in the Control 2 mode (CTRL on the rear LCD) from the custom menu since this mode is the original Minolta protocol.